Which Oecumenical Council Is The Greatest?

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1308358' date='Jul 1 2007, 07:32 PM']That was me accidentally posting under my wife's screen name. My bad.[/quote]


that's cute!


for me ... I don't know that I would have become Catholic without both Trent and Vatican 2 so those are high on my list, but now that I've been reading early church writing I am digging a lot of the early councils as well. They are all pretty awesome ... without any one of them the church would be much different. And I love it the way it is. So picking the one that's greatest is impossible, imo. It's like asking which of the colors in the Mona Lisa is the best? They all work together to make a masterpiece ... none of them stands alone.

Edited July 2, 2007 by Terra Firma

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1308600' date='Jul 1 2007, 08:52 PM']

that's cute!
for me ... I don't know that I would have become Catholic without both Trent and Vatican 2 so those are high on my list, but now that I've been reading early church writing I am digging a lot of the early councils as well. They are all pretty awesome ... without any one of them the church would be much different. And I love it the way it is. So picking the one that's greatest is impossible, imo. It's like asking which of the colors in the Mona Lisa is the best? They all work together to make a masterpiece ... none of them stands alone.[/quote]


But V2 wasn't even dogmatic... it was pastoral.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1308603' date='Jul 1 2007, 08:53 PM']But V2 wasn't even dogmatic... it was pastoral.[/quote]
Dude, YOU put it on the list.

You never said I had to pick the best [i]dogmatic[/i] council. Pfft.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1308606' date='Jul 1 2007, 08:55 PM']Dude, YOU put it on the list.

You never said I had to pick the best [i]dogmatic[/i] council. Pfft.[/quote]

I just don't understand how a pastoral council made you Catholic? I mean since it was pastoral no doctrine was developed...

[Sojourner]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1308610' date='Jul 1 2007, 08:58 PM']I just don't understand how a pastoral council made you Catholic? I mean since it was pastoral no doctrine was developed...[/quote]
Well, my decision to become Catholic was not based on doctrine alone. It was an emotional decision as much as it was an intellectual decision.

Worship is something that should encompass your whole person -- mind, heart, soul, and body. Vatican 2 spoke to my heart. That was an important aspect of my conversion. Vital, in fact.

[homeschoolmom]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1308603' date='Jul 1 2007, 10:53 PM']But V2 wasn't even dogmatic... it was pastoral.[/quote]

It was pastoral and dogmatic and I certainly would not have stayed catholic without it.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1308621' date='Jul 1 2007, 09:05 PM']Well, my decision to become Catholic was not based on doctrine alone. It was an emotional decision as much as it was an intellectual decision.

Worship is something that should encompass your whole person -- mind, heart, soul, and body. Vatican 2 spoke to my heart. That was an important aspect of my conversion. Vital, in fact.[/quote]

I see my religion as more a thing of the intellect than a thing of the emotions... but I guess everyone has their own style of sandwich...

[quote]It was pastoral and dogmatic and I certainly would not have stayed catholic without it.[/quote]

I'm sad to hear that.

Edited July 2, 2007 by StThomasMore

[Sojourner]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1308655' date='Jul 1 2007, 09:21 PM']I see my religion as more a thing of the intellect than a thing of the emotions... but I guess everyone has their own style of sandwich...[/quote]
I see it as following the first and greatest commandment ... love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your body.

Separating out any of those divides the person and diminishes the capacity we have to love as God loves.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1308663' date='Jul 1 2007, 09:25 PM']I see it as following the first and greatest commandment ... love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your body.

Separating out any of those divides the person and diminishes the capacity we have to love as God loves.[/quote]

Charity is an act of the intellect and will more than an act of the emotions. The properties of a spirit are an intellect and a will. The mind an agent of the human spirit/soul

Edited July 2, 2007 by StThomasMore

[Sojourner]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1308667' date='Jul 1 2007, 09:26 PM']Charity is an act of the intellect and will more than an act of the emotions. The properties of a spirit are an intellect and a will. The mind an agent of the human spirit/soul[/quote]
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, Tommy.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1308667' date='Jul 1 2007, 11:26 PM']Charity is an act of the intellect and will more than an act of the emotions. The properties of a spirit are an intellect and a will. The mind an agent of the human spirit/soul[/quote]
But that charity takes place in a body that sees and feels and touches and loves.

[kenrockthefirst]

Constantinople I, wherein the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed was firmed up. The Creed is absolutely essential to what it means to be a Christian.

[Apotheoun]

Constantinople I is a great council. I also like Chalcedon, Constantinople III, and Nicaea II.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1309590' date='Jul 2 2007, 03:18 PM']Constantinople I is a great council. I also like Chalcedon, Constantinople III, and Nicaea II.[/quote]

I recall chart you made on ByzCath about who accepts which councils as Oecumenical:


[quote]Twenty-one Ecumenical Councils
|
|
Romans
|
|
Latinized Eastern Catholics
|
|
Indifferent Eastern Catholics
|
|
De-Latinized Eastern Catholics
|
|
Orthodox
|
|
Seven Ecumenical Councils
[url="http://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/232462/page/0/fpart/6"]http://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.p.../page/0/fpart/6[/url][/quote]

Where do you stand on the chart?

[Groo the Wanderer]

Voted for Vat II

Because:


JPtG was there!




Sorry for the irreverence but this poll is almost as silly as some of dairygirl's polls. It is kinda like asking a parent which of his kid's if theri favorite and why.


All were important, all had a lasting impact. Some had different reasons, some were doctrinal, some were pastoral. Some instituted reforms, some announced dogma or doctrine.

None are unessential.....

and...it's 'Ecumenical' not 'Oecumenical' Might be closer to Latin, but we are speaking English, mano.

Edited July 3, 2007 by Groo the Wanderer

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1311080' date='Jul 3 2007, 12:16 PM']Voted for Vat II

Because:
JPtG was there!
Sorry for the irreverence but this poll is almost as silly as some of dairygirl's polls. It is kinda like asking a parent which of his kid's if theri favorite and why.
All were important, all had a lasting impact. Some had different reasons, some were doctrinal, some were pastoral. Some instituted reforms, some announced dogma or doctrine.

None are unessential.....

and...it's 'Ecumenical' not 'Oecumenical' Might be closer to Latin, but we are speaking English, mano. [/quote]
Oecumenical is a valid English rendering. I like it because it seems a bit more solemn.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1311080' date='Jul 3 2007, 01:16 PM']and...it's 'Ecumenical' not 'Oecumenical' Might be closer to Latin, but we are speaking English, mano. [/quote]

True, but keep in mind that there is the oalternate ouniverse of Cansia where there are only four or five oplanets in the osolar osystem....so I guess that there are different orules for not only oastronomy but also ospelling....

Anyway, it's really hard to say which council is the greatest. Many, if not most, were called to respond to crises in the Church. Personally, I probably hold the greatest affection for the councils of Nicaea I through Chalcedon because:

1) They show clear and early examples of the authority of the successors of the apostles settling questions that are not addressed directly in the bible or are in dispute
2) They settled important questions regarding Christology
3) Many claim that Mary is the mother of Jesus but not of God. That means that either Jesus is not God or Jesus is a "spriritual schizophrenic". Chalcedon addreses the "spiritual schizophrenic" issue with its declarations on the hypostatic union, leaving the naysayers to force the fact that they are denying Jesus' divinity.

Other than that, Trent was important because it was part of the "Counter-Reformation". It addressed important issues raised by the "Reformation", corrected abuses, and from what I understand, and established the seminary system. Lateran I is important to understand because it formalized the clerical celibacy rules currently in place in the Latin rite.

Vatican I was cut short due to the Italian reunification campaign, and it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if it had been allowed to complete without outside interference.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1312544' date='Jul 4 2007, 03:08 PM']True, but keep in mind that there is the oalternate ouniverse of Cansia where there are only four or five oplanets in the osolar osystem....so I guess that there are different orules for not only oastronomy but also ospelling....

Anyway, it's really hard to say which council is the greatest. Many, if not most, were called to respond to crises in the Church. Personally, I probably hold the greatest affection for the councils of Nicaea I through Chalcedon because:

1) They show clear and early examples of the authority of the successors of the apostles settling questions that are not addressed directly in the bible or are in dispute
2) They settled important questions regarding Christology
3) Many claim that Mary is the mother of Jesus but not of God. That means that either Jesus is not God or Jesus is a "spriritual schizophrenic". Chalcedon addreses the "spiritual schizophrenic" issue with its declarations on the hypostatic union, leaving the naysayers to force the fact that they are denying Jesus' divinity.

Other than that, Trent was important because it was part of the "Counter-Reformation". It addressed important issues raised by the "Reformation", corrected abuses, and from what I understand, and established the seminary system. Lateran I is important to understand because it formalized the clerical celibacy rules currently in place in the Latin rite.

Vatican I was cut short due to the Italian reunification campaign, and it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if it had been allowed to complete without outside interference.[/quote]

Cansia/Kansia is the word Kansas it Latin...

BTW, Apotheoun, I seriously do want to know how many Councils you consider Oecumenical since some Easterners don't consider all 21 Oecumenical

Edited July 4, 2007 by StThomasMore

[Norseman82]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1312546' date='Jul 4 2007, 04:12 PM']Cansia/Kansia is the word Kansas it Latin...[/quote]

I figured that...I'm just giving you some razzing in good fun, kid : :