Zimbabwe's Archbishop Calls For Overthrow Of The Government

[kujo]

[url="http://cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=52118"]Click here.[/url]

Wow. This guy is BAMF!

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='kujo' post='1309504' date='Jul 2 2007, 01:58 PM'][url="http://cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=52118"]Click here.[/url]

Wow. This guy is BAMF![/quote]

revolutions are sinful

we should bear our wrongs patiently and obey all our governments in all that is not evil.

[Era Might]

Here are the general principles given by the Catechism for armed resistance to oppression by political authority:

[quote]Armed resistance to oppression by political authority is not legitimate, unless all the following conditions are met: 1) there is certain, grave, and prolonged violation of fundamental rights; 2) all other means of redress have been exhausted; 3) such resistance will not provoke worse disorders; 4) there is well-founded hope of success; and 5) it is impossible reasonably to foresee any better solution.[/quote]
I'm not sure about this statement by the Archbishop:

[quote]Now he told the Sunday Times, "I'm ready to lead the people, guns blazing."[/quote]
Canon 289 states: "Since military service is hardly in keeping with the clerical state, clerics and candidates for sacred orders are not to volunteer for military service except with the permission of their ordinary." I guess he is the ordinary so maybe he does not apply here.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1309534' date='Jul 2 2007, 01:27 PM']revolutions are sinful

we should bear our wrongs patiently and obey all our governments in all that is not evil.[/quote]
It is lamentable that the German people did not overthrow Hitler.

[catholicinsd]

Well the president's 83. I don't they need a revolution if they want him gone.

[cappie]

Trouble is Zimbabwe's not in the Middle East and has no oil, so no one is very interested.

[Mercy me]

Mugabe has been a horror for years and has systematically been destroying that society. Someone needs to do something only it is very hard for the people to rise up against a dictator.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1309534' date='Jul 2 2007, 03:27 PM']we should bear our wrongs patiently and obey all our governments in all that is not evil.[/quote]

And don't you think that what Mr. Mugabe is doing is evil?????

And what if one of those "wrongs to be borne patiently" was a horde of government soldiers raping your mother or other family members?

Think about it.

[hoosieranna]

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1309889' date='Jul 2 2007, 06:41 PM']Mugabe has been a horror for years and has systematically been destroying that society. Someone needs to do something only it is very hard for the people to rise up against a dictator.[/quote]

Mr. Tsvangirai tried do something peacefully. He got horribly beaten. South Africa won't do much because Mugabe is seen as sort of a Pan-African hero. He went against colonial powers and won. It's become a sort of mythos. Mugabe blames the US and the West for interfering in matters we don't even care about. He doesn't have to come up with half-supportable propoganda because so many Zimbabweans are more concerned with surviving than getting him out of office.

Sorry it turned into a bit of a rant. That's just my two cents.

[geetarplayer]

I'm surprised Archbishop Ncube hasn't been martyred yet.

[MichaelF]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1309534' date='Jul 2 2007, 03:27 PM']revolutions are sinful

we should bear our wrongs patiently and obey all our governments in all that is not evil.[/quote]

You wouldn't be obeying the Zimbabwe "government" much at all, then.

Even for Africa, Zimbabwe is a new iteration of insanity.


Mugabe was not legitimate to begin with, and has only gotten worse.

I don't see anything wrong with the people of Zimbabwe throwing him out (as he has suppressed the rights of the people to chose their government).

[Mercy me]

[quote name='Nadezhda' post='1310535' date='Jul 3 2007, 12:20 AM']Mr. Tsvangirai tried do something peacefully. He got horribly beaten. South Africa won't do much because Mugabe is seen as sort of a Pan-African hero. He went against colonial powers and won. It's become a sort of mythos. Mugabe blames the US and the West for interfering in matters we don't even care about. He doesn't have to come up with half-supportable propoganda because so many Zimbabweans are more concerned with surviving than getting him out of office.

Sorry it turned into a bit of a rant. That's just my two cents.[/quote]
No rant and the two cents are appreciated. It is true what you say. I have watched the situation for the last 5 years or so and it is aweful.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1309550' date='Jul 2 2007, 02:43 PM']It is lamentable that the German people did not overthrow Hitler.[/quote]

Did the Early Christians try to overthrow Nero?

[MichaelF]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1311599' date='Jul 3 2007, 07:58 PM']Did the Early Christians try to overthrow Nero?[/quote]

The Praetorians, Senate and, in the end, Nero himself, took care of that. Many years before a Christian revolt would have been possible (Nero died in 68. Likely there were less than a thousand actual Baptised Christians in the City). Once Christians were present in sufficient numbers, they weren't shy about getting into Roman political life (that's how we got a whole bunch of martyrs, including St. George).

Christians are obliged to show unflinching defiance in the face of evil. Historically, pacifism and passivity have not been hallmarks of the Christian faith.

Once a government loses its legitimate mandate to govern, it's open season.

Edited July 4, 2007 by MichaelF

[Norseman82]

Oh, BTW St. Thomas More, happy 4th of July, a day to remember that this country owes its very existence to a bunch of people in Philadelphia who engaged in a "sinful revolution". You owe the freedom you now enjoy to a lot of people who would not "bear wrongs patiently".

[kateri05]

i'm not trying to be on st. thomas more's side or anything, but i think its a little ridiculous to compare our revolution - fought over taxes, western expansion, parlimentary representation, and military quartering - to the horrific violations of human dignity and human life in countries like Zimbabwe.


don't get me wrong, i love our country, but i'm pretty sure a just war theologian would have hard time justifying the american revolution.