Ethnicity, How Important Is It To You?

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='inDEED' post='1348612' date='Aug 3 2007, 01:47 PM']I am Mexican American. Both my parents were born here, in the United States - and both are 2nd generation Mexican Americans.[/quote]


Technically....Mexican is a nationality and not a race. Since you never had Mexican citizenship (do you?) you cannot technically call yourself a Mexican-American. Hispanic American would be closer. Latin American would be waaay off, since there is no Latinia out there either

The whole label thing is so silly, esp when we start throwing hyphens in there. Take the term African-American. There are very few people who could actually claim that term. Most blacks in America have never been to Africa (and never will) nor do they have African citizenship. That said, what the heck do you call a black man born in England? Call him African-American and you've likely offended him twice. He is a British citizen, so maybe Anglo-African?

Can't we just be Americans if you are a citizen of the USA? With so many racial problems in our history, he have to get past it to heal the wounds. Race will only continue to be an issue as long as we make it an issue.



On the last form I had to fill out that asked me race, I checked 'Other' then filled in "Half-elf". Made as much sense to me as the rest. My original USAF paperwork listed my race as 'Human'

[jiyoung]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1349300' date='Aug 4 2007, 01:13 AM']The whole label thing is so silly, esp when we start throwing hyphens in there. Take the term African-American. There are very few people who could actually claim that term. Most blacks in America have never been to Africa (and never will) nor do they have African citizenship. That said, what the heck do you call a black man born in England? Call him African-American and you've likely offended him twice. He is a British citizen, so maybe Anglo-African? [/quote]

You know, I've always thought that was silly. Why not just call them black? They could be from America, England, Africa, Jamaica, etc etc. Calling them all "African-American" makes as much sense as calling all Asians Chinese-American, regardless of whether they ARE from America, or Britain, or from Korea, or Japan, or Singapore, whatever.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='jiyoung' post='1349314' date='Aug 4 2007, 02:48 AM']You know, I've always thought that was silly. Why not just call them black? They could be from America, England, Africa, Jamaica, etc etc. Calling them all "African-American" makes as much sense as calling all Asians Chinese-American, regardless of whether they ARE from America, or Britain, or from Korea, or Japan, or Singapore, whatever.[/quote]

Ha! For reals! One time I was talking with a lady at my great-grandmother's house and she commented on my darker skin tone and curly hair. I told her it was because I am part black, that my grandma on my dad's side is black. She gasped and told me that I shouldn't say "black" that I should say "colored." I couldn't believe my ears. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying someone is black. Its way less offensive than "colored," and the PC "African American" has always struck me as ridiculous. [i]None[/i] of the black people I know call themselves "African American."

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1349300' date='Aug 4 2007, 12:13 AM']My original USAF paperwork listed my race as 'Human' [/quote]

haha nice

[Norseman82]

I'm mostly Polish (about 75%; the other 25% is Slovak, I think). But even my Polish part is at war with itself; on my mom's side, I was told I was Kaszubian Polish, which is the part of Poland that was ruled by Prussia and supposedly has a German-influenced dialect, while my paternal grandfather came from the southern part of Poland that is home to the [i]Górale[/i], or the "Highlanders", and they supposedly have their own dialect as well. (I identify with my dad's side more).

As far as importance, it would be nice to marry someone who is of the same ethnic background in order to carry on traditions, but it is not as important as marrying a good Catholic girl.

[quote name='Socrates' post='1348009' date='Aug 2 2007, 09:24 PM']In times past, much emphasis was made on "Americanizing" immigrants, and there tended to be prejudice against any non-WASP ethnicity. "Ethnics" would go out of their way to be "American."[/quote]

Yeah, I remember stories of when my dad was in the Navy and his sister begged him to write a letter home in Polish, but my dad insisted on them understandung English.


[quote name='Socrates' post='1348009' date='Aug 2 2007, 09:24 PM']This seems to be more of a thing in the more traditionally immigrant/Catholic North, than in the newer parishes of the more traditionally protestant South.
A few years ago I visited a Polish-American girl in Connecticut, and the parsishes were all segregrated along ethnic lines (largely either Italian or Polish).[/quote]

It was especially true in Chicago, where there would be several Catholic churches all within walking distance (and I mean a half mile), depending on whether you were Polish, Italian, Lithuanian, Czech, etc. Even in my dad's old neighborhood (Ukrainian Village), you have the traditionally Polish parish, but less than two blocks east is a Hungarian parish and a few blocks south a traditionally Italian parish, and a few blocks west another parish that is now primarily Hispanic. Then you have the Russian Orthodox, Ukranian Orthodox, and Ukranian Rite Catholic parishes, and then even some of these were subdivided over whether they used the Julian calendar or switched to the Gregorian calendar! All these within 1/2 mile walking distance...

Of course, with the demographics being what they are, they will soon all be one nationality: yuppie.

[quote name='Socrates' post='1348009' date='Aug 2 2007, 09:24 PM']I went to a nice Polish Church, but we seemed to be about the only young adults at Mass.[/quote]

Haha, there is one Polish parish up here that has a pretty active young adult group, but you'd better speak Polish (it's definitely an experience playing volleyball with them - at least I can understand the score!).

Edited August 4, 2007 by Norseman82

[tojo]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1349300' date='Aug 4 2007, 01:13 AM']Technically....Mexican is a nationality and not a race. Since you never had Mexican citizenship (do you?) you cannot technically call yourself a Mexican-American. Hispanic American would be closer. Latin American would be waaay off, since there is no Latinia out there either [/quote]

Actually, we're talking about ethnicity, not race.

[quote]American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition

ethnicity [(eth-nis-uh-tee)] - Identity with or membership in a particular racial, national, or cultural group and observance of that group's customs, beliefs, and language.[/quote]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' post='1349316' date='Aug 4 2007, 02:09 AM'][i]None[/i] of the black people I know call themselves "African American."[/quote]

I know a lot who do. My high school was half black, and the term "African American" was commonly used, as was "black" by those to who it applied to. They were scene as equally acceptable, although "Black" was seen as a slightly more casual term, and therefore was used a bit more often.

Edited August 4, 2007 by tomasio127

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1349319' date='Aug 4 2007, 03:26 AM']I'm mostly Polish (about 75%; the other 25% is Slovak, I think). But even my Polish part is at war with itself; on my mom's side, I was told I was Kaszubian Polish, which is the part of Poland that was ruled by Prussia and supposedly has a German-influenced dialect, while my paternal grandfather came from the southern part of Poland that is home to the [i]Górale[/i], or the "Highlanders", and they supposedly have their own dialect as well. (I identify with my dad's side more).

As far as importance, it would be nice to marry someone who is of the same ethnic background in order to carry on traditions, but it is not as important as marrying a good Catholic girl.
Yeah, I remember stories of when my dad was in the Navy and his sister begged him to write a letter home in Polish, but my dad insisted on them understandung English.
It was especially true in Chicago, where there would be several Catholic churches all within walking distance (and I mean a half mile), depending on whether you were Polish, Italian, Lithuanian, Czech, etc. Even in my dad's old neighborhood (Ukrainian Village), you have the traditionally Polish parish, but less than two blocks east is a Hungarian parish and a few blocks south a traditionally Italian parish, and a few blocks west another parish that is now primarily Hispanic. Then you have the Russian Orthodox, Ukranian Orthodox, and Ukranian Rite Catholic parishes, and then even some of these were subdivided over whether they used the Julian calendar or switched to the Gregorian calendar! All these within 1/2 mile walking distance...

Of course, with the demographics being what they are, they will soon all be one nationality: yuppie.
Haha, there is one Polish parish up here that has a pretty active young adult group, but you'd better speak Polish (it's definitely an experience playing volleyball with them - at least I can understand the score!).[/quote]


Chicago is the 2nd largest Polish city in the world. Approx. 1 million ethnic Poles live there (1/3 of the population of Chicago). You can't find a larger concentration of Poles outside the Chicago area within the US.

Edited August 4, 2007 by Paladin D

[misereremi]

So many interesting posts! I like how America is such an amazing mix of peoples! I can relate to wanting to preserve something about your roots on the one hand, and also not really identifying with them much on the other.

Like a lot of people, I'm very mixed ethnically but unlike a lot of people I've not had a stable "national identity." I think ethnicity is not as interesting as culture. I've assimilated a lot of contrasting cultures which haven't got much to do with my ethnicity. Nobody guesses my ethnicity correctly when they see me anyway.

People in the Uk often call me a Yank because I never quite lost my California twang, yet my father's family is (mainly) English. I've lived in most of the countries where my parents and great-grandparents are from, and speak or understand the languages, cook the food, know the customs, etc etc. It's important for them that I know my roots. I think for them there was the worry that I will not identify with them or hand down their identity to my children, but it's not the case. I find it interesting to learn about the family tree (how some people were colonizers, others the colonized, how Catholicism was brought in ) and to be able to pass on different languages and cultures to my children. I would consider myself a "Eurasian traveller".

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1349300' date='Aug 4 2007, 07:13 AM']That said, what the heck do you call a black man born in England? Call him African-American and you've likely offended him twice. He is a British citizen, so maybe Anglo-African? [/quote]
My hubby calls himself British and so do most of my Black friends born and bred here in England. None of them would call themselves "English", which is strange to me... When I first came here I'd say to people "I'm English now", and people would reply "You can't say that. You're not White!" Yet I've heard Black people from Scotland or Ireland say they are Scottish or Irish.

For Black people in the UK it is usually important to make the distinction between whether their family is from Africa or the Caribbean- they identify strongly with one or the other culture because they are children to first to third generation only. The term "coloured" is considered racist here (everyone is coloured).

My children spend a lot of time with their African grandparents and have been to Africa, and met all the elders and relatives in the villages where they are from. My mother in law is a second mom to me. She teaches me a lot that I can hand down to my kids. They've also been to the Philippines and Spain, and are embraced by everybody. Everyone is keen for them not to lose that bit of them. I think it's awesome, but the most important thing is that they are Catholics.

[IcePrincessKRS]

Thats really awesome Misereremi! ("Colored" is usually considered racist here in the US, too.) I love the idea of exposing my children to different cultures, and would be glad to take them to Poland, Germany, and Ireland (which is their primary ethnic background; my husband is mostly Polish, German, and a bit of Irish) and show them a bit of their history. But I lack a lot of that knowledge myself so its not going to be easy to teach them all those things. Yesterday we did make our first homemade pierogies together, though! And this past Easter my girls each made their first pisanki eggs (or the Ukranian spelling "pysanky"), so we're practicing a little bit. I just wish I knew more.

Right now we're experiencing Korean culture (even though we don't have a drop of anyting Asian in us lol--we're just military ) but its good for them; they like it here. Still, I know we're not really fully living the "Korean experience", we are still [b]very[/b] much Americans in the way we live day to day.

[misereremi]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' post='1349341' date='Aug 4 2007, 11:21 AM']But I lack a lot of that knowledge myself so its not going to be easy to teach them all those things. Yesterday we did make our first homemade pierogies together, though! And this past Easter my girls each made their first pisanki eggs (or the Ukranian spelling "pysanky"), so we're practicing a little bit. I just wish I knew more.[/quote]
I reckon you're doing a great job already. You'd be surprised how many Europeans can't make a traditional dish anymore. ( to them, lol!) My Polish neighbours are really into American (hip-hop) culture, it gives me jokes! It must be fascinating living in Korea.

[TotusTuusMaria]

I am an English Traveller (Romanichal). Another group related to us (in a way) that is probably much better known are the Irish Travellers. I actually live among more Irish then I do English. I am proud of my heritage and culture. It has been one of the primary forces in my life that has shaped who I am today. I cannot say I am proud of all the things my people are known for, but I do not deny (at least not all the time.. who I am and where I have come from. Besides church though, I am not around very many people who are not Travellers so I am not given the option of denying it very often.

As far as marriage goes and passing down my “identity” to my kids..

If I were called to the vocation of marriage I would not make it a priority to seek a spouse who was either an English or Irish Traveller. I would be more concerned that he was a good Catholic man rather then that he was a Traveller.

If I did not marry a Traveller then I would not pass much if any of my culture to my kids. If I were to marry a Traveller then I would teach them the language, let them be around some people, have the choice of working with my husband, and that would be all.

Edited August 4, 2007 by TotusTuusMaria

[Seven77]

I'm an "Indian American"--not be confused with "American Indian".