A Priest Chewed Me Out

[Slappo]

Well I would like to say two things. The preist was very wrong for lecturing you in the manner that he did, or lecturing you in general. However, I do not believe it would have been wrong, if he approached you with complete charity, and asked you to refrain from genuflecting being the sign of reverence you use before recieving communion (maybe even reccomend that you save your genuflection to the Eucharist right after recieving communion and leaving the communion line). As genuflecting is NOT the norm per the GIRM it would have been completely acceptable for him to ask you to refrain from that.

As for kneeling FOR reception of communion, this is not one of the options we as communicants have to choose from (as far as I know). This would be completely in line with Church teaching if a pastor asked you not to recieve communion kneeling, and if he chose to do so, under obedience you should follow. We need to be obedient to our bishops or superiors (for those in religious orders. Legionaries of Christ recieve kneeling, but it is by the norm of their order). I think the key here is truly obedience. The saints have taught us that obedience can be one of the most meritorious things we can do. Humble obedience and submission to those in authority (When they are speaking with proper authority. Not things like "you can't recieve on the tongue" which is out of their authority).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those are my thoughts.

As for kneeling during the consecration, when in choir I don't do that, but maybe I should, I'll ask my spiritual director. Every other time, I do. If I find myself stuck standing, I give a profound bow during the consecration as the priest genuflects to the Precious Body/Precious Blood on the altar (right after "this is my body etc" and "do this in memory of me"). I know that not having kneelers is no reason to stand during the consecration.

-Marcus

[Laudate_Dominum]

Here are a few things briefly. This issue ought to have a comprehensive document which I may put together later.


[quote]CONGREGATION FOR DIVINE WORSHIP AND THE DISCIPLINE OF THE SACRAMENTS

Prot. n. 2372/00/L

Responses to Dubia

1. Is it the case that the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, by No. 43 of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, intends to prohibit the faithful from kneeling during any part of the Mass except during the Consecration, that is, to prohibit the faithful from kneeling after the Agnus Dei and following the reception of Holy Communion?

Resp.: Negative.

2. Does the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments intend by Nos. 160-162, 244, or elsewhere in the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, that the people may no longer genuflect or bow as a sign of reverence to the Blessed Sacrament immediately before they receive Holy Communion?

Resp.: Negative.

Vatican City, 7 November 2000
Jorge Arturo Cardinal Medina Estevez, Cardinal Prefect[/quote]

[quote]When receiving Holy Communion standing, the communicant bows his or her head before the sacrament as a gesture of reverence and receives the Body of the Lord from the minister. The consecrated host may be received either on the tongue or in the hand at the discretion of each communicant. When Holy Communion is received under both kinds, the sign of reverence is also made before receiving the Precious Blood.

Revised Adaptations to the
Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani
for the Church in the United States
Effective April 25, 2002[/quote]

[quote]Prot. n. 1322/02/L

Rome, 1 July 2002

Your Excellency,

This Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has recently received reports of members of the faithful in your Diocese being refused Holy Communion unless while standing to receive, as opposed to kneeling. The reports state that such a policy has been announced to parishioners. There were possible indications that such a phenomenon might be somewhat more widespread in the Diocese, but the Congregation is unable to verify whether such is the case. This Dicastery is confident that Your Excellency will be in a position to make a more reliable determination of the matter, and these complaints in any event provide an occasion for the Congregation to communicate the manner in which it habitually addresses this matter, with a request that you make this position known to any priests who may be in need of being thus informed.

The Congregation in fact is concerned at the number of similar complaints that it has received in recent months from various places, and considers any refusal of Holy Communion to a member of the faithful on the basis of his or her kneeling posture to be a grave violation of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful, namely that of being assisted by their Pastors by means of the Sacraments (Codex Iuris Canonici, canon 213). In view of the law that "sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them" (canon 843 ¶ 1), there should be no such refusal to any Catholic who presents himself for Holy Communion at Mass, except in cases presenting a danger of grave scandal to other believers arising out of the person's unrepented public sin or obstinate heresy or schism, publicly professed or declared. Even where the Congregation has approved of legislation denoting standing as the posture for Holy Communion, in accordance with the adaptations permitted to the Conferences of Bishops by the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani n. 160, paragraph 2, it has done so with the stipulation that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds.

In fact, as His Eminence, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has recently emphasized, the practice of kneeling for Holy Communion has in its favor a centuries-old tradition, and it is a particularly expressive sign of adoration, completely appropriate in light of the true, real and substantial presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ under the consecrated species.

Given the importance of this matter, the Congregation would request that Your Excellency inquire specifically whether this priest in fact has a regular practice of refusing Holy Communion to any member of the faithful in the circumstances described above and -- if the complaint is verified -- that you also firmly instruct him and any other priests who may have had such a practice to refrain from acting thus in the future. Priests should understand that the Congregation will regard future complaints of this nature with great seriousness, and if they are verified, it intends to seek disciplinary action consonant with the gravity of the pastoral abuse.

Thanking Your Excellency for your attention to this matter and relying on your kind collaboration in its regard,

Sincerely yours in Christ,

Jorge A. Cardinal Medina Estévez
Prefect[/quote]


[quote]Prot. n. 1322/02/L

Rome, 1 July 2002

Dear Sir,

This Congregation for Divine Worship gratefully acknowledges receipt of your letter, regarding an announced policy of denial of Holy Communion to those who kneel to receive it at a certain church.

It is troubling that you seem to express some reservations about both the propriety and the usefulness of addressing the Holy See regarding this matter. Canon 212 ¶2 of the Code of Canon Law states that "Christ's faithful are totally free to make known their needs, especially their spiritual ones, and their desire: to the Pastor of the Church". The canon then continues in ¶3: "According to their own knowledge competence and position, they have the right, and indeed sometimes the duty, to present to the sacred Pastor; their opinions regarding those things that pertain to the good of the Church".... Accordingly, in consideration of the nature of the problem and the relative likelihood that it might or might not be resolved on the local level, every member of the faithful has the right of recourse to the Roman Pontiff either personally or by means of the Dicasteries or Tribunals of the Roman Curia.

Another fundamental right of the faithful, as noted in canon 213, is "the right to receive assistance by the sacred Pastors from the spiritual goods of the Church, especially the word of God and the Sacraments". In view of the law that "sacred" ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them" (canon 843 ¶ 1), there should be no such refusal to any Catholic who presents himself for Holy Communion at Mass, except in cases presenting a danger of grave scandal to other believers arising out of the person's unrepented public sin or obstinate heresy or schism, publicly professed or declared. Even where the Congregation has approved of legislation denoting standing as the posture for Holy Communion, in accordance with the adaptations permitted to the Conferences of Bishops by the Institution Generalis Missalis Romani n. 160, paragraph 2, it has done so with the stipulation that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds.

Please be assured that the Congregation takes this matter very seriously, and is making the necessary contacts in its regard. At the same time, this Dicastery continues to be ready to be of assistance if you should need to contact it again in the future.

Thanking you for your interest, and with every prayerful good wish, I am

Sincerely yours in Christ,

Monsignor Mario Marini
Undersecretary[/quote]

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1348481' date='Aug 3 2007, 08:27 AM']With regard to the communal vs. personal aspect of communion, my understanding is that there are elements of both when we receive. We do of course individually partake of the Body of Christ, but we do so together, not only with those we're in immediate physical contact with but also with the church universal. The communal aspect of communion is an essential element of the whole, but shouldn't take precedence over the individual, particularly when the piety of the individual can enrich the entire body. I think when I see people being particularly pious it helps me to worship better, because it reminds me of the gravity of the actions I undertake.[/quote]
Yes, Fr. Serpa over at CA explains in well [url="http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=13399"]here[/url], regarding a question about standing after Communion to promote unity - "Our unity comes from the Lord—not us! It is in being in Holy Communion with Him that we are in communion with one another. This is just one more example of contemporary liturgists putting the cart before the horse--or not even getting the cart near the horse!!"

[Church Punk]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1347784' date='Aug 2 2007, 07:10 PM']Two real stories:

1) At my old parish, where I had been going for years, and never seemed to take prayer after communion seriously, I went to the normal Sunday mass. After communion, I noticed this teenager sitting two rows in front of me praying with his face in his hands. Even after the song ended and everybody sat down, he continued to kneel, praying. When the priest began the closing prayer, the young man signed himself, and stood up with the rest of us. It opened my eyes and changed me. It really did. That one "selfish" act by that kid, had an influence on making me a better Catholic... and he has no idea.

2) I attended mass at SMU in Dallas, where mass is held in a multi-denominational chapel. Therefore, no kneelers. Well, I kneeled anyway. I was the only one kneeling during the consecration. After mass, an older lady came up to me and told me she admired my devotion. Maybe it helped her devotion just a little bit?

Anyway. The point is, for everyone that says that you think you are more holy than everyone else, showing off, being excessively pius--who cares. You never know who may be affected by your "selfishness".[/quote]

Dust this reminds me of this past Christmas eve mass at our diocese cathedral. We arrived a little bit "late" (20 mins early) and there were no more placing in the pews to sit. Instead they had made new arrangements in front of the side alters due to the 1000s of people coming for Christmas eve mass with the Bishop. Anyway during Eucharistic prayer through to the concecration and etc., my family kneeled on the hard marble floor. The other parishoners saw this and joined us for as long as they could, rather than sitting in their comfy chairs, even 2 elderly ladies.

Needless to say it was moving.

[kateri05]

[quote]The only parish I've attended where we are asked to stand during consecration is the Basilica in Minneapolis; I invariably kneel, even though the bulletin expressly asks that congregants stand. It just doesn't feel right to stand. But, I've never been called out by any priest for kneeling.[/quote]

WHY? why would they explicitly ask people to violate the GIRM? i don't get it

[Sojourner]

[quote name='kateri05' post='1348811' date='Aug 3 2007, 05:09 PM']WHY? why would they explicitly ask people to violate the GIRM? i don't get it [/quote]
They say it's in accordance with age-old tradition and with permission of the bishop.

I don't get it either. There are kneelers. It's weird.

[Slappo]

So L_G in regards to those texts. Does that mean that I was mistaken in saying that we as communicants are not supposed to recieve kneeling? I knew (and forgot to add in my post) that a priest can't refuse us holy communion while kneeling, but I was under the impression that we should follow the norm of standing while recieving communion, and that a pastor is allowed to ask us after mass not to recieve while kneeling. Please correct me if I am mistaken. I've always been under the impression that we can't recieve kneeling even though we won't be refused.

Thanks,
Marcus