Paddington Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 I don't have a good understanding of the issue anyways. But, it seems that lots of things elevate one's mind to God. Obviously, there aren't pictures of mountaintops and sunsets in Church tho. (Maybe there are?) So...yea....I don't even know how to ask what I'm asking. Please fire away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddington Posted August 19, 2007 Author Share Posted August 19, 2007 okay....I'll try to get this started.... A real icon has Christ or a Christ-bearer (saint) or even an angel. Other stuff can be kinda like an icon, but it isn't an icon because it can't be an icon because those are the rules. How am I doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 An icon is a living expression of the Orthodox faith. In other words, an icon is not a piece of art, and the iconographer is not an artist in the modern sense of that word, because he is not trying to express his own ideas, nor is he trying to display his own natural talents. The iconographer is first and foremost creating a liturgical prayer, a window into heaven, and in order to do this he must live the Orthodox faith through prayer and fasting, while following the norms established by the Church's iconographic Tradition. Moreover, in writing an icon the iconographer is creating a specific memory ([i]anamnesis[/i]) of an event or person within the life of the Church, a memory ([i]anamnesis[/i]) that is identical to the memory ([i]anamnesis[/i]) of the whole Church. Thus, an icon is a theophany, i.e., it is a manifestation of God through an eruption of divine energy into the world, which means that an icon really is what it signifies; and so, to touch an icon is to touch the personal reality of the mystery itself. For more information on icons I would recommend getting a copy of the book: [u]The Meaning of Icons[/u], by Leonid Ouspensky and Vladimir Lossky. Fr. Kucharek's book [u]The Byzantine-Slav Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom[/u] is also helpful. God bless, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 I want a pantocrator icon. Sr. M. Johanna at FUS showed it to us and it was just...beautiful and meditative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardella Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 If you double-click on an icon, you usually open a file or application. If you double click on a picture, little usually happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 [quote name='scardella' post='1364508' date='Aug 20 2007, 03:47 PM']If you double-click on an icon, you usually open a file or application. If you double click on a picture, little usually happens. [/quote] Or you go to to tinypic or photobucket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Basically, the writing of an icon comes from Eastern Tradition, and it consists of long hours of prayer and spiritual preparation before it is written (icons are written. There is a story within). That's one big thing that sets religious art from Iconography. I can't recommend any books, but I'm sure a google search could get some basic information. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatty07 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 If you're not sure about a particular image's origin, one question to ask is its apparent purpose. Is this image meant to be looked at or looked through? That's one way to describe the main difference between art and icon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1362959' date='Aug 19 2007, 04:25 PM']An icon is a living expression of the Orthodox faith. In other words, an icon is not a piece of art, and the iconographer is not an artist in the modern sense of that word, because he is not trying to express his own ideas, nor is he trying to display his own natural talents. The iconographer is first and foremost creating a liturgical prayer, a window into heaven, and in order to do this he must live the Orthodox faith through prayer and fasting, while following the norms established by the Church's iconographic Tradition. Moreover, in writing an icon the iconographer is creating a specific memory ([i]anamnesis[/i]) of an event or person within the life of the Church, a memory ([i]anamnesis[/i]) that is identical to the memory ([i]anamnesis[/i]) of the whole Church. Thus, an icon is a theophany, i.e., it is a manifestation of God through an eruption of divine energy into the world, which means that an icon really is what it signifies; and so, to touch an icon is to touch the personal reality of the mystery itself. For more information on icons I would recommend getting a copy of the book: [u]The Meaning of Icons[/u], by Leonid Ouspensky and Vladimir Lossky. Fr. Kucharek's book [u]The Byzantine-Slav Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom[/u] is also helpful. God bless, Todd[/quote] WOW. What a blessing from God.!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1365641' date='Aug 21 2007, 12:27 PM']WOW. What a blessing from God.!!![/quote] Does the Roman Church have the same understanding of Icons as the Orthodox? I'm a bit confused, I thought the theology of Icons was unique to the Orthodox faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I was wondering if anyone can answer a question I've been wondering about, since we're talking about icons. I know that, to say the least, they're far more prevalent in Eastern Catholic and Orthodox traditions. Is the Roman Catholic Church in any way 'against' icons? Or is it more of a cultural difference? I find something incredibly transcendent in the idea of icons, but unfortunately I just don't have access to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommas_boy Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1759899' date='Jan 23 2009, 11:21 PM']Does the Roman Church have the same understanding of Icons as the Orthodox? I'm a bit confused, I thought the theology of Icons was unique to the Orthodox faith.[/quote] We also venerate icons, though not with the to the same level of popularity as in the Eastern Tradition. Also, we tend to be less educated on the theology behind iconography. But, Icons are beginning to make a resurgence among many Latin-Rite parishes. I wish that I had the time to study up on iconography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommas_boy Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1759909' date='Jan 23 2009, 11:27 PM']I was wondering if anyone can answer a question I've been wondering about, since we're talking about icons. I know that, to say the least, they're far more prevalent in Eastern Catholic and Orthodox traditions. Is the Roman Catholic Church in any way 'against' icons? Or is it more of a cultural difference? I find something incredibly transcendent in the idea of icons, but unfortunately I just don't have access to them.[/quote] See above; implication: the Roman Church is not "against" icons. It is, as you say, a cultural difference. The Roman Church should adopt more of the Eastern practices, however, in order to strengthen the unity between both traditions and enable the Church to breathe again with both lungs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 The Ukrainian Catholic churches up here have lots, so if the church was against them, that would be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I remember asking a woman who visited a Melkite Church that I was attending what she thought about the liturgy, and she said that it was very nice, but that there were too many images in the [i]worship space[/i], to which I responded, "Too many icons? That’s like saying that there is too much grace in a Church." For Eastern Christians (both Catholic and Orthodox) the veneration of icons is a dogma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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