Uk Wants Dna Of Every Single Citizen

[cmotherofpirl]

[url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,2162745,00.html"]http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,2162745,00.html[/url]

[homeschoolmom]

Sorry... my dna is my own.

[T-Bone _]

If they implement the "visitor" part, I will never, ever, visit the UK.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

This idea has been suggested by one judge.

He's only one man. Saying 'The United Kingdom Wants DNA of Every Single Citizen' is very different from saying 'One English Judge Wants...'

[Farsight one]

I gotta say that I wouldn't be opposed to that happening. If everyone's dna is on record, then it'll be a lot harder to commit a crime and get away with it. It's a small sacrifice for the betterment of the community as a whole. It's not like they're going to be cloning you without your knowledge.

I liken it to the "no liquids allowed in your carry-ons" rule. Yeah, it's a minor nuisance, but we're all a lot safer for it.

If you've got nothing to hide, then you've got nothing to worry about.

...not that I actually live in the UK

[Socrates]

[quote name='Farsight one' post='1380094' date='Sep 6 2007, 10:20 PM']I gotta say that I wouldn't be opposed to that happening. If everyone's dna is on record, then it'll be a lot harder to commit a crime and get away with it. It's a small sacrifice for the betterment of the community as a whole. It's not like they're going to be cloning you without your knowledge.

I liken it to the "no liquids allowed in your carry-ons" rule. Yeah, it's a minor nuisance, but we're all a lot safer for it.

If you've got nothing to hide, then you've got nothing to worry about.

...not that I actually live in the UK[/quote]
We always have to balance a line between freedom and "public safety."

What freedoms would you [b]not[/b] be willing to give up to "make it harder to commit a crime and get away with it" and "better the community as a whole"??

Quite frankly your philosophy sounds scarily like a prescription for a "Big Brother" totalitarian statist society.

[Farsight one]

I'm sorry, but could you perhaps better define the parameters of your question?

[Totus Tuus]

I'm glad I don't live there because MY dna is none of the government's darn business.





Can we say, "Karl Marx"?

Edited September 7, 2007 by Totus Tuus

[Farsight one]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1380124' date='Sep 6 2007, 11:46 PM']I'm glad I don't live there because MY dna is none of the government's darn business.
Can we say, "Karl Marx"?[/quote]
I gotta say I don't understand this mentality. It'll sit in a database on a computer for law enforcement to compare it to(along with the dna of everyone else) when they find dna at a crime scene. It can be quite easily set up that your name isn't even flashed across the screen unless there's a match to the sample they found.

Did you know that the government can already get your dna any time they want and without you knowing? It's as easy as grabbing a napkin, or a cup, or something like it, out of the trash and taking a dna sample from it.

[Justin86]

[quote name='Farsight one' post='1380130' date='Sep 7 2007, 01:51 PM']I gotta say I don't understand this mentality. It'll sit in a database on a computer for law enforcement to compare it to(along with the dna of everyone else) when they find dna at a crime scene. It can be quite easily set up that your name isn't even flashed across the screen unless there's a match to the sample they found.[/quote]
That's what they [i]say[/i] the information is going to be used for. How do we know that? How do we know the government would murder someone and then plant the DNA of a person they wanted to blame for it?

[quote]Did you know that the government can already get your dna any time they want and without you knowing? It's as easy as grabbing a napkin, or a cup, or something like it, out of the trash and taking a dna sample from it.[/quote]
For that to be legal you have to use one of those products and then, at least leave it in a public place. Unless you want the government to have your DNA don't agree to drink the Coke, or smoke the cigarette, or whatever else you they bait you with. Mandatory testing on all residents doesn't give people this option.

[homeschoolmom]

Well, I'm not too concerned about being framed for a murder. However, I would be concerned about an error being made...

My bigger concern is who else will get ahold of these "secret government records" -- What if I want to take out some health or life insurance? Do they somehow get ahold of it? What about if I want to adopt? Can the agency have it? They say, "Oh no... of course not. It's for criminal use only" but I have my doubts.

[cmotherofpirl]

What a wonderful way for the government to frame anybody and everybody they want for any crime they want.
Want to bring down a senator or mayor or anyone else, simply plant his DNA at a crime scene.

[adt6247]

[quote name='Farsight one' post='1380130' date='Sep 7 2007, 12:51 AM']I gotta say I don't understand this mentality. It'll sit in a database on a computer for law enforcement to compare it to(along with the dna of everyone else) when they find dna at a crime scene. It can be quite easily set up that your name isn't even flashed across the screen unless there's a match to the sample they found.

Did you know that the government can already get your dna any time they want and without you knowing? It's as easy as grabbing a napkin, or a cup, or something like it, out of the trash and taking a dna sample from it.[/quote]
The day might come where we are persecuted for horribly immoral things. The mass could be illegal. There could be a ban of religious artifacts. The liberal west becomes more hateful to religion every day.

We are called as Catholics to follow the law, unless the law requires us to sin, and then we MUST defy the law. I want the ability to have an illegal underground mass, if that's what I must do. Though I am willing to die for Christ, I want to live for him if possible.

I don't like giving the government more power to track us. This database of DNA would make every purchase trackable, even those made with cash, because our DNA would be on every dollar. Our presence everywhere would be detectable. It would allow for a Gattica-like world, a 1984-like world.

If the US implemented a law like this, I'd leave within a month, while I was still allowed.

[adt6247]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1380240' date='Sep 7 2007, 09:46 AM']Well, I'm not too concerned about being framed for a murder. However, I would be concerned about an error being made...

My bigger concern is who else will get ahold of these "secret government records" -- What if I want to take out some health or life insurance? Do they somehow get ahold of it? What about if I want to adopt? Can the agency have it? They say, "Oh no... of course not. It's for criminal use only" but I have my doubts.[/quote]
This is an excellent point. Over the past few years, credit card companies have been hacked several times, with millions of records being accessed by the hackers. Frankly, most world governments have lousier information security than most financial firms, the US and UK included.

[adt6247]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1380275' date='Sep 7 2007, 11:38 AM']What a wonderful way for the government to frame anybody and everybody they want for any crime they want.
Want to bring down a senator or mayor or anyone else, simply plant his DNA at a crime scene.[/quote]
I don't think we have the technology for this... [i]yet[/i]. Give it 10 years.

Worse yet -- if the repositories are hacked, and DNA information is taken, people would be able to clone celebrities or whatnot. They would also be able to do this by trash-picking, but I assume we'll have home incinerators by then, or at least irradiation.

[Farsight one]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1380239' date='Sep 7 2007, 08:34 AM']That's what they [i]say[/i] the information is going to be used for. How do we know that? How do we know the government would murder someone and then plant the DNA of a person they wanted to blame for it?[/quote]Do you honestly think that the government needs to plant actual DNA evidence at a crime scene to frame someone? Heck no. If the government truly wants you gone, then you're gone. This isn't a conspiracist attitude here. This is simple common sense.

[quote]For that to be legal you have to use one of those products and then, at least leave it in a public place. Unless you want the government to have your DNA don't agree to drink the Coke, or smoke the cigarette, or whatever else you they bait you with. Mandatory testing on all residents doesn't give people this option.[/quote]For that to be legal for a normal civilian or for local law enforcement, yes. But the way I understand it, a government official can come dig through your trash at any reason for any time(provided it's of course at the curb, thus making it no longer legally your property)

[adt6247]

[quote name='Farsight one' post='1380534' date='Sep 7 2007, 05:29 PM']Do you honestly think that the government needs to plant actual DNA evidence at a crime scene to frame someone? Heck no. If the government truly wants you gone, then you're gone. This isn't a conspiracist attitude here. This is simple common sense.

For that to be legal for a normal civilian or for local law enforcement, yes. But the way I understand it, a government official can come dig through your trash at any reason for any time(provided it's of course at the curb, thus making it no longer legally your property)[/quote]
One can argue back and forth about the practicality of such measures. The fact of the matter is it isn't good for the government to be able to track our every move. The government is already too powerful, going beyond its own scope, offering things like welfare, education, medicare, social security, and restricting what food we can eat, what medications we can take, who we can associate with, and what we can think. Do we really need the government to spend more of our money making itself more powerful?

[Justin86]

[quote name='Farsight one' post='1380534' date='Sep 8 2007, 06:29 AM']Do you honestly think that the government needs to plant actual DNA evidence at a crime scene to frame someone? Heck no. If the government truly wants you gone, then you're gone. This isn't a conspiracist attitude here. This is simple common sense.[/quote]
Yes, but being this is yet Stalinist Russia where people just vanish and no asks what happened to them the government would have to justify a guilty verdict in a criminal trial somehow. DNA is a great tool for that.

[quote]For that to be legal for a normal civilian or for local law enforcement, yes. But the way I understand it, a government official can come dig through your trash at any reason for any time(provided it's of course at the curb, thus making it no longer legally your property)[/quote]
Except that digging through my personal trash is alot like digging through the public trash. If I have friends over and they drink some Coke, smoke a cigarette outside, whatever, they're going to be using my trash. It's really not an accurate way to collect someone's DNA.

Edited September 8, 2007 by Justin86

[Justin86]

[quote name='adt6247' post='1380311' date='Sep 8 2007, 01:27 AM']This database of DNA would make every purchase trackable, even those made with cash, because our DNA would be on every dollar.[/quote]
The only way your DNA can get on cash is if you lick it, use it to wipe your butt, or snorted drugs through it. Just becuase you touch something doesn't mean your DNA is on it. Now you're fingerprints, yes those get on cash however any bill or coin is going to have too many fingerprints on it for the government to track. Cash circulates and passes through the hands of too many people too fast for that to happen.