Buddhism And Christianity

[Innocent]

Some time ago I was reading about Buddhist philosophy and it struck me that there had not been any attempts of synthesis comparable to what the Angelic Doctor did with Greek Philsophy.

Or is there synthesis being done and am I just unaware of it? (At present, I am only aware of one work, [url="http://books.google.com/books?id=f1ia9GsG_vQC&pg=PR1&dq=zen+catholicism&ie=ISO-8859-1&sig=9iwc1HGcWPbYAQIRKlBXya8joqw"]Dom Aelred Graham's [color="red"][i]Zen Catholicism[/i][/color][/url], and I haven't read it yet. )

Have any of you heard of any attempts to synthesise Buddhist philosophy?


The similarities between the two might be a good starting point to bring up the subject of Catholicism in conversation.

What do you think?

Would attempts to synthesise Buddhist philosophy be worthwhile for Catholicism?

Edited September 21, 2007 by Innocent

[dairygirl4u2c]

there are threads here that argue whether they are compatible. in the process, the people who argue similar have ponited out similariites etc. you might search the archives.

[Innocent]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1389673' date='Sep 21 2007, 11:39 AM']there are threads here that argue whether they are compatible. in the process, the people who argue similar have ponited out similariites etc. you might search the archives.[/quote]

Well, I did a search, and went through five pages of thread titles, but I didn't find any thread that discusses the synthesis of Buddhism, so I thought I'd start one.

Oh, well, it may not be a good idea anyway. We don't have many Buddhists here to dialogue with.

Perhaps this thread should be deleted?

Edited September 21, 2007 by Innocent

[beatty07]

Another source I recommend is Merton's first few essays in the compilation "Mystics and Zen Masters." His thesis is that the Zen form of Buddhism has no doctrine, but is simply technique and some compatible philosophical ideas, and that it could become a form of Christian spirituality much like Augustinian or Ignatian spirituality.

And it's fun to read him making fun of California Zen nuts who get it really, really wrong. I think what he says is that Zen in the US is always about a personal spiritual experience. That's cool, Merton says, except that Zen is never personal, or spiritual, or an experience.

If I remembered that right...well, probably I didn't. But he makes a pretty interesting case.

[cmotherofpirl]

Why don't you start a thread in trans and talk about the discussion?

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='beatty07' post='1389744' date='Sep 21 2007, 03:23 PM']Another source I recommend is Merton's first few essays in the compilation "Mystics and Zen Masters." His thesis is that the Zen form of Buddhism has no doctrine, but is simply technique and some compatible philosophical ideas, and that it could become a form of Christian spirituality much like Augustinian or Ignatian spirituality.

And it's fun to read him making fun of California Zen nuts who get it really, really wrong. I think what he says is that Zen in the US is always about a personal spiritual experience. That's cool, Merton says, except that Zen is never personal, or spiritual, or an experience.

If I remembered that right...well, probably I didn't. But he makes a pretty interesting case.[/quote]

That's really interesting. Does this mean, if large groups of people in predominantly Zen Buddhist areas were to convert to Catholicism, they could have their own liturgical rite that is influenced by Zen principles?

[jeffpugh]

What I know about this subject is pretty much on some notions from reading some literature by Buddhists, and then reading what Chesterton had to say about it in [i]Orthodoxy[/i]. Basically, they only really reflect one another in certain practices, but not philosophy.

[jeffpugh]

I should probably mention, that some Buddhists work to try and make a bridge between Christianity and their faith by means that do not exist. That is, by means where there is no connection. I read this one book called [i]Living Buddha, Living Chrst[/i] because one of my liberal friends challenged me to read it last year, and I challenged him to read another title... I think it was [i]A Refutation of Moral Relativism[/i]. Unfortunately, I believe he reneged on the deal by not upholding his end of the bargain. Anywho, the book was pretty heartbreaking at times, because the Buddhist monk spoke of religious indifferentism, (he dissed JPII in the process, saying that "he was not open", blah blah), and he actually had the Body blood, Soul and Divinity (ie the Eucharist) without being Baptised and a part of the Catholic church. Some Liberal Catholic monk gave it to him... funny thing was, the author said that "some people were shocked and offended when I told them I partook of the Eucharist..." [paraphrase]. I thought, "yeah, just a little..." Well, when I returned the book, all I could really say was it was interesting...

Just my 2 cents.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1391826' date='Sep 24 2007, 12:27 AM']I should probably mention, that some Buddhists work to try and make a bridge between Christianity and their faith by means that do not exist. That is, by means where there is no connection. I read this one book called [i]Living Buddha, Living Chrst[/i] because one of my liberal friends challenged me to read it last year, and I challenged him to read another title... I think it was [i]A Refutation of Moral Relativism[/i]. Unfortunately, I believe he reneged on the deal by not upholding his end of the bargain. Anywho, the book was pretty heartbreaking at times, because the Buddhist monk spoke of religious indifferentism, (he dissed JPII in the process, saying that "he was not open", blah blah), and he actually had the Body blood, Soul and Divinity (ie the Eucharist) without being Baptised and a part of the Catholic church. Some Liberal Catholic monk gave it to him... funny thing was, the author said that "some people were shocked and offended when I told them I partook of the Eucharist..." [paraphrase]. I thought, "yeah, just a little..." Well, when I returned the book, all I could really say was it was interesting...

Just my 2 cents.[/quote]

Was he a Zen Buddhist, though? I think it was only Zen Buddhism that Merton was referring to. I know there are different kinds of Buddhism (Mahayana, Theravada, etc.) It's possible that Zen Buddhism may have no doctrine to speak of and place no emphasis on any kind of religious experience, whereas the others are more doctrine-based. I don't know much about it, so I can't say.

[Sojourner]

One of my professors spent a couple of years as a Buddhist monk, had her head shaved and everything. She's now orthodox Catholic. I'm sure that some of her Buddhist years affects her understanding of Catholicism, but I haven't quizzed her on just how ... We're going to hang out for the day in a few weeks, though, so maybe then.

[jeffpugh]

I can't remember exactly what sect he was in... I think maybe Zen. Either way, Zen is a subsect of one of the three main sects... oh well... look up the title if you're interested.

[beatty07]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1391820' date='Sep 23 2007, 06:13 PM']That's really interesting. Does this mean, if large groups of people in predominantly Zen Buddhist areas were to convert to Catholicism, they could have their own liturgical rite that is influenced by Zen principles?[/quote]

that would surprise me, personally, but it's not impossible.

Some people will undoubtedly read this thread and think "oh, that Merton again, it's a good thing he died before he finished apostasizing to Buddhism." For some reason there seems to be a lot of opinion that he had become syncretist. I've read a lot of Merton and seen nothing that indicates that, but then again there's a lot of Merton I haven't read too. I think his cooperation with Buddhist monks revolved mainly around meditation techniques. Maybe somebody can tell us otherwise.

Most Catholic criticism of Buddhism involves a nihilistic or quasi-gnostic philosophy, where the world is evil and Nirvana means personal annihilation, or absorption into some kind of world-soul thingy. The very little interaction I've had with Buddhists has indeed indicated this sort of philosophy. The one guy I'm thinking of in particular was Vajrayana, I think. And when we get into the Four Noble Truths and the Sevenfold Path, I think we're way beyond the possibility of synthesis.

On the other hand, if a form of Buddhism was entirely centered on the purification of one's heart from desire for worldly things - without declaring the world evil, mind you - then I think that has potential to be 'baptized.' At that point, one could look at it as simply a set of techniques for embracing the kind of purgation that John of the Cross wrote about.

[Innocent]

[quote name='beatty07' post='1391914' date='Sep 24 2007, 07:14 AM']And when we get into the Four Noble Truths and the Sevenfold Path, I think we're way beyond the possibility of synthesis.[/quote]

I haven't heard of the Sevenfold Path so far. How is it different from the Eightfold Path?

[jeffpugh]

One thing that should be noted is that there is no denying the truth that is in the Buddhist philosophy, but I must say it is not the answer. It's obvious though on a Catholic phorum.

[beatty07]

[quote name='Innocent' post='1391935' date='Sep 23 2007, 09:19 PM']I haven't heard of the Sevenfold Path so far. How is it different from the Eightfold Path?[/quote]

The difference is that the Sevenfold Path is a figment of my imagination. oops.

[beatty07]

[quote name='Innocent' post='1391935' date='Sep 23 2007, 09:19 PM']I haven't heard of the Sevenfold Path so far. How is it different from the Eightfold Path?[/quote]

The difference is that the Sevenfold Path is a figment of my imagination. oops. well, I might as well finish the job since I've created a new religion. Here it is:

1) lots of coffee
2) compulsive running followed by long periods of couch-potato-ness.
3) surfing
4) listen to 'Freebird' and/or 'Wanted Dead or Alive' every day.
5) talk like a pirate at inappropriate times. Wait, are there any?
6) if you aren't crying, you need more hot sauce.
7) any of the above can be omitted for the holy purpose of going fishing, especially at 4am.

[jeffpugh]

Why 4am?

[Socrates]

I don't claim to be an expert on Buddhism, but Buddhism and Catholicism are too fundamentally different in their basic understanding of reality for there to be any "synthesis."

This is not deny that some good elements can be found in Buddhism (importance of compassion, etc.), but Buddhism's teachings on reality and the individual are too far removed from Christian Truth for there to be a true "fusion" of these beliefs.

[abercius24]

Buddhists generally have beliefs and practices we Catholics believe to be supersticious and sometimes atheistic. Similarities such as monastic life, personal honor and spiritual discipline are not enough to create a synthesis. Christianity is also incompatible with any "open" philosophical framework. We believe in absolute truth, which is only compatible with a "closed" philosophical framework (as the Greeks held). Buddhism does not seek to find an ultimate truth. Instead it seeks to find "paths" that lead to "personal" truth. Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. He alone is our path and goal. As Merton points out, Zen is a way of life that is not necessarily religious and can be compatible with Christianity when one carefully keeps to a Christian focus. Zen is more of an aesthetic discipline presenting concepts to help one balance their priorities in life, which we inherently hold to in most cases.

Edited September 25, 2007 by abercius24

[beatty07]

Do you know much about Zen? Do you find Merton's proposal convincing? So far this thread has everything except anybody who knows anything about Zen!