Torture

[Autumn Dusk]

ooo mental tourture, not only good in the moment but also works well years later

[S][N]

..Wow can't believe your 23....perhaps you should start acting like it towards topics like this. Of course that'd require knowledge and not spoon feeding...

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote name='S][N' post='1410252' date='Oct 27 2007, 09:01 PM']
..Wow can't believe your 23....perhaps you should start acting like it towards topics like this. Of course that'd require knowledge and not spoon feeding...[/quote]

I happen to have a very intimate relationship with all types of torture includign metal, physical...I've had things forced under my fingernails....if someone pushes too hard they can make your nails fall off....it happens...

[jeffpugh]

wha--?

[S][N]

Wow..cracking jokes about torture...how mature.

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote name='S][N' post='1410384' date='Oct 28 2007, 01:42 AM']
Wow..cracking jokes about torture...how mature.[/quote]

I have humor about my life, thats not immature...and thats a tame story I have personal torture stories that would be censored faster than I could post it

[Justin86]

[quote name='S][N' post='1410217' date='Oct 28 2007, 08:35 AM']
That's called MENTAL TORTURE Groo. Just because it doesn't harm you physically straight away doesn't mean it's not torture. Mental torture is far worse than physical.

And by supporting these you are in contradiction with the Church, I'm sure theres some form of punishment for that, such as no Communion perhaps.[/quote]
Care to share with us what interrogation techniques you [i]do[/i] support?

[MIKolbe]

ones without torture

[Justin86]

1. The question was posed to S[]N.

2. S[]N's definition of torture are so broad it makes one wonder how he would go about interrogating a criminal if he had too.

[Maggyie]

I wonder if there are any particular guidelines regarding psychological warfare... I mean I guess any form of interrogation has psychological elements, since you're trying to induce them to let the cat out of the bag? I imagine you couldn't do things that would override their will etc ?

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1409838' date='Oct 26 2007, 04:46 PM']What is moral violence?[/quote]

well, i thought that might be something like forcing a prisoner to do something against his/her beliefs, etc. such as forcing one prisoner to kill another, concious of it at the time or not.

some of what people deem torture i believe is neccessary (not maiming and all that, but like sleep deprivation, good cop bad cop, etc)

i also believe that some information simply cannot be extracted without old fashioned physical torture, but this does not in anyway condone its use. so what if the information saves a few peoples lives, if in order to get it you had to subject another human being to extended horrendous pain and eventual death.

[S][N]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1410401' date='Oct 28 2007, 12:02 AM']Care to share with us what interrogation techniques you [i]do[/i] support?[/quote]

I don't support torture in any way, shape or form. And please don't use this "Interrogation techniques" as a description for torture. Torture is torture, pretty little words don't cover it up.

Again I repeat. I DO NOT SUPPORT ANY FORM OF TORTURE, PHYSICAL or MENTAL.

To torture another human being to such an extend that they would agree to anything, and/or want to die from the pain caused to them, is a disgusting, immoral, sadistic act.

Ask yourselves this as I do myself before taking a position on any political grounding, "Could I do it myself?"

- Could I kill a man?
- Could I bring pain upon another human being?

[matthew1618]

[quote name='S][N' post='1410568' date='Oct 28 2007, 09:33 AM']
Again I repeat. I DO NOT SUPPORT ANY FORM OF TORTURE, PHYSICAL or MENTAL.[/quote]

I agree.

Edited October 28, 2007 by matthew1618

[cmotherofpirl]

Again you need to define what torture is.
Is it an action torture because it is something that can harm anyone if applied? Or is an action still torture when you know its something that would affect one person adversely because of their particular psych makeup, but not really affect the rest of us?
For example, dangling someone from a bridge and threatening to drop them can be construed as torture. But for some people who have a terror of heights, simply dropping them off on a bridge or driving along a road with a steep dropoff will induce absolute panic.

[MIKolbe]

The infliction of physically founded suffering or the threat immediately to inflict it, where such infliction or threat is intended to elicit, or such infliction is incidental to means adopted to elicit, matter of intelligence or forensic proof and the motive is one of military, civil, or ecclesiastical interest.

but do we really really need a definition? Or do we need to treat people like...people?

Edited October 28, 2007 by MIkolbe

[Autumn Dusk]

by your definition then St. Patric tortured the pagans when he choped down the tree they worshiped...give me a break!

[CatherineM]

Both my dad and his brother were POW's in WWII. My uncle came home with a deformed hand because it had been repeatedly broken and rebroken. My dad came home without most of his teeth, and had nightmares for the rest of his life. When I tried to ask him about what had happened, he made me watch the movie "The Rack" with Paul Newman and Lee Marvin. Both played Korean War Vets, both captains with silver and bronze stars, and both had been POW's at the same camp. The difference was that Marvin was physically tortured and Newman had been psychologically tortured. Newman broke and became a collaborator, Marvin didn't. When they had been released, Marvin had turned Newman into the Army. At the end of the movie/court marshal, Newman said that the night before the verdict, Marvin had come to see him. After hearing Newman's testimony, he understood better, and the men reconciled. He said at the end, that everyone comes to a fork in the road. If they choose the right path, it is a moment of Glory. If they choose the wrong path, it is a lifetime of regret.

In choosing to torture, I think we take that wrong path. There were times when people persecuting the church would give someone like a bishop or priest a choice. To deny the faith, or they would start killing their other captives, one at a time. That's torture. If I am ever one of those people who might die unless someone is tortured for information, I hope that my death will show that we can choose the right path. We can choose what is easy, or what is right, ofttimes those are different paths. What good is it to save our lives if we lose our souls? When a country tortures, it can also lose its soul and its way.

[Autumn Dusk]

Despite your heartbreaking story, I think torture is sometimes necessary.
Some criminials are brainwashed to begin with. Their mental toture began long before we ever got to them.
It's not a matter of do unto others, its a matter of the value you place on information and thought.
In the narrow view torture can be viewd as almost anything...making someone sleep on a hard mattress or defyling a Koran in front of a Moslem? In the wide view torture can negate physical, mental even sexual violence (weither that be through scandal or actions). In the wider view its obvously wrong and a power play/bully thing.

When contries are at war and people are dying over sensless things just because you wouldn't want to be tortured dosn't mean thats not the way to go about things. Yes, each human life is a value and people shouldn't go about committing extortion, but if people's lives are on the line and a bop on the head can get it out of the guy or lying and telling him his villiage burned down, than do it!

[Norseman82]

Normally, I would say no, but I might look the other way if it was necessary to find a nuclear weapon or other WMD and preventing it from going off in a major metropoloitan area (and could be done in a non-lethal manner). In this case, the cathechism reference does not appear to apply, because:

1) It is not about extracting a confession, punishing the guilty, or hatred, but rather about finding out critical life saving information.

2) If lives and public safety are endangered, then it might be necessary for public order.

The only question is what is the most reliable way of getting this information?

Edited October 28, 2007 by Norseman82

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1410596' date='Oct 28 2007, 08:54 AM']by your definition then St. Patric tortured the pagans when he choped down the tree they worshiped...give me a break![/quote]
The definition is from Black's Law Dictionary.