Liberal Catholics

[catholicinsd]

I've been thinking the vast majority of the liberal democratics Catholics were educated in parochial schools in the era prior the the Second Vatican Council. Yet they have broken with Holy Mother Church on nearly every issue. Why do you think this is?

[Jaime]

I think this is an incredibly vague topic

[catholicinsd]

Tom Daschle, Nancy D'Alesandro Pelosi, John Kerry, Edward Kennedy amoung others were educated in private Catholic schools in the 1950's or earlier, yet they have strayed from Church teachings.

[Aloysius]

A massive sociological shift in Western culture. Basically, the media spread the idea most effectively.. the purpose, sociologically, was to give more power to the market. If you can vilify all the old values, you give people free licence to fulfil their appetites as much as they want.

It's really not that difficult: they convinced people to throw off their upbringing by appealing to their appetites. We've been exporting that all over the world with our media systems, we've even begun to strongly undermine traditional islamic culture in the middle east, which is why their extremists hate us so much.

[S][N]

I think your incredibly ignorant and narrow minded.

[rkwright]

[quote name='S][N' post='1411970' date='Oct 31 2007, 12:06 PM']
I think your incredibly ignorant and narrow minded.[/quote]

What is being said here is accuracte, not sure how this makes them narrow minded or ignorant...

Do you know what the Church teachings are and how they are missing the point on these issues???

[Hashbrowns]

why are you suggesting a connection between catholic education and liberal politicians rejecting the Catholic faith?

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Hashbrowns' post='1411999' date='Oct 31 2007, 01:31 PM']why are you suggesting a connection between catholic education and liberal politicians rejecting the Catholic faith?[/quote]

*shrugs* my (current) "catholic" education has done nothing to ensure orthodox faith among the youth. my school is a good academic school, but the theology department is a joke. i can't wait to leave.

[rkwright]

[quote name='Hashbrowns' post='1411999' date='Oct 31 2007, 01:31 PM']why are you suggesting a connection between catholic education and liberal politicians rejecting the Catholic faith?[/quote]
As with the above response, my Catholic education was hardly orthodox. I think we were morally better than our public school counterparts, but as far as a solid Catholic education, there really wasn't one. I had a nun who claimed to be a 'hippy nun'...

I didn't really learn about my faith until College.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1412011' date='Oct 31 2007, 01:55 PM']As with the above response, my Catholic education was hardly orthodox. I think we were morally better than our public school counterparts, but as far as a solid Catholic education, there really wasn't one. I had a nun who claimed to be a 'hippy nun'...

I didn't really learn about my faith until College.[/quote]

i would say that is somewhat like my school, but my school is probably not quite that bad. the theology department here is just plain ignorant.

i can't wait to go to college next year.

[dUSt]

[quote name='S][N' post='1411970' date='Oct 31 2007, 12:06 PM']
I think [b]your [/b]incredibly ignorant and narrow minded.[/quote]

"Your" is possesive.

You're = you are.

As is, your sentence is incomplete. Here's a few that would work better:

"[b]I think your incredibly ignorant and narrow minded [/b]dog barks too much."

"[b]I think your incredibly ignorant and narrow minded [/b]wife needs to stop calling me."

See? Better.

[rkwright]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1412026' date='Oct 31 2007, 02:11 PM']"Your" is possesive.

You're = you are.

As is, your sentence is incomplete. Here's a few that would work better:

"[b]I think your incredibly ignorant and narrow minded [/b]dog barks too much."

"[b]I think your incredibly ignorant and narrow minded [/b]wife needs to stop calling me."

See? Better.[/quote]

grammarOWNED

[Winchester]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1412026' date='Oct 31 2007, 02:11 PM']"Your" is possesive.

You're = you are.

As is, your sentence is incomplete. Here's a few that would work better:

"[b]I think your incredibly ignorant and narrow minded [/b]dog barks too much."

"[b]I think your incredibly ignorant and narrow minded [/b]wife needs to stop calling me."

See? Better.[/quote]
That's my job.

But well done.

[Winchester]

[quote name='S][N' post='1411970' date='Oct 31 2007, 12:06 PM']
I think your incredibly ignorant and narrow minded.[/quote]


Elsewhere from S({})}[][][()()(N:

[quote]please keep your judgementalism (sic) to yourself.[/quote]

Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1411775' date='Oct 30 2007, 11:32 PM']I've been thinking the vast majority of the liberal democratics Catholics were educated in parochial schools in the era prior the the Second Vatican Council. Yet they have broken with Holy Mother Church on nearly every issue. Why do you think this is?[/quote]

Seems to me, raising a kid in Catholic schools is the best way to ensure they [i]don't[/i] become Catholic. How many people who are passionate about the faith were raised Catholic? I'll bet more than half of Phatmass folks were not... guess that means I better create a poll.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1412026' date='Oct 31 2007, 01:11 PM']"Your" is possesive.

You're = you are.

As is, your sentence is incomplete. Here's a few that would work better:

"[b]I think your incredibly ignorant and narrow minded [/b]dog barks too much."

"[b]I think your incredibly ignorant and narrow minded [/b]wife needs to stop calling me."

See? Better.[/quote]
Dust, this is a message board, hardly the place to call people out on their spelling and grammar. Hence the "edit" button. Unless YOU ARE going to add spelling and grammar features...?

[Winchester]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1412054' date='Oct 31 2007, 02:43 PM']Dust, this is a message board, hardly the place to call people out on their spelling and grammar. Hence the "edit" button. Unless YOU ARE going to add spelling and grammar features...?[/quote]
dUSt, let me field this.

Since spelling and grammar are part of a good message, a message board is a great place to "call people out" on their grammar. Especally if the person is question is claiming in a grammatically hideous sentence that certain people are "ignorant." In this case, not only is a nice grammatical lesson imparted, but one's attention is called to a delicious irony.

The edit button was not utilized. It is irrelevant.

People have been checking spelling and grammar for years without a program to do it for them. And there is a spellcheck feature on Phatmass. Grammar is more difficult for a computer to find and correct, and properly used poor grammar is always acceptable. The your and you're conflict is a pox upon our language. It must be assaulted with vigor.

[mortify]

Maybe part of the reason why liberalism is so popular among Catholics is because of the strict rigidity and dryness that existed prior to Vatican ii.

[Socrates]

A "liberal Catholic" is an oxymoron.

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1411834' date='Oct 30 2007, 11:14 PM']A massive sociological shift in Western culture. Basically, the media spread the idea most effectively.. the purpose, sociologically, was to give more power to the market. If you can vilify all the old values, you give people free licence to fulfil their appetites as much as they want.

It's really not that difficult: they convinced people to throw off their upbringing by appealing to their appetites. We've been exporting that all over the world with our media systems, we've even begun to strongly undermine traditional islamic culture in the middle east, which is why their extremists hate us so much.[/quote]
While the media would become an influence, I think it's rather silly and inaccurate to blame the problem of liberal Catholicism mainly on the media and "the market." Frankly, the idea that Catholic heterodoxy isa the result of a plot to "give more power to the market" reeks of a certain shallow quasi-Marxist ideology which blames "Capitalism" for all the world's ills.

The truth is a lot more complex (though ultimately we can blame it all on the devil, I suppose). First was the underground growth of certain condemned modernist ideas (stolen from liberal protestantism in the 19th century) among the clergy, which were brought into the open after Vatican II, on the false pretext that the council had done away with old Catholic teaching and radically changed the Church.
Also was the influence of the whole sexual revolution and the hippie counterculture on the Church in the '60s and '70s. (Though I wouldn't blame this initually on a capitalist marketing scheme - though marketers would later use this to their advantage. Many of the 60s-70s-era liberal Catholics and hippies were vehemently anti-capitalist, and even blatantly Marxist.)

I'd say part of the original problem was that by the '50s, American Catholics had come out of their "Catholic ghetto" and were getting much cozy with the outside culture (as opposed to earlier areas when Catholics were strongly persecuted), so they didn't have the strength to resist when secular culture changed for the worse.
The blatant heretical teaching of many dissident clergy post-Vatican II helped further confuse the faithful.

[Socrates]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1412036' date='Oct 31 2007, 01:24 PM']Seems to me, raising a kid in Catholic schools is the best way to ensure they [i]don't[/i] become Catholic. How many people who are passionate about the faith were raised Catholic? I'll bet more than half of Phatmass folks were not... guess that means I better create a poll. [/quote]
I think a [i]bad[/i] "Catholic" education is the best way to ensure that kids loose the faith. Students at liberal "Catholic" universities tend to lose the faith at a higher rate than those at purely secular universities.

I attended a solidly (orthodox) Catholic college, of which most of the grads remain faithful Catholics.

If all I had known of the Catholic faith was the wishy-washy kumbaya feel-good fluff I got in junior-high CCD (back before the program was cleaned up at my parish), it's dubious that I'd still be a practicing Catholic.