"cafeteria Catholics"

[Resurrexi]

...

Edited November 4, 2007 by StThomasMore

[Lena]

[i]Then, therefore, must modern, liberal so-called "Cafteria Catholics" believe in such doctrines as the divinity of Jesus Christ, the Trinity of Persons in God, the Resurection, Transubstantiation, male-only Holy Orders, and Original Sin?[/i]

do so-called cafeteria catholics [i]not[/i] believe in the above? I mean, since it's pretty basic tenets to the Catholic faith. Otherwise, why call oneself a Catholic.....?

[Justin86]

yes, yes, yes.

In order to accurately describe yourself as a Catholic you have to believe in all the doctrines of the Catholic Church. Obviously, under my logic the second poll would be a "yes", and as for the third, if you don't believe in Catholicism then it would be better for everyone if you just left. You're only publicly acknowledging what you already are: not a Catholic.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1413951' date='Nov 3 2007, 10:30 PM']yes, yes, yes.

In order to accurately describe yourself as a Catholic you have to believe in all the doctrines of the Catholic Church. Obviously, under my logic the second poll would be a "yes", and as for the third, if you don't believe in Catholicism then it would be better for everyone if you just left. You're only publicly acknowledging what you already are: not a Catholic.[/quote]


I sorta think that, but the last couple days I've been rethinking. I think the best way to view it is that they reconcile themselves with Church doctrines and submit themselves to the authority of the pope instead of leaving. *shrugs* i know what you mean, but i guess I think it's always better to view things positively.

By the way, my view has changed since the "forgiveness" thread in which I said something about someone who doesn't believe Christian things shouldn't call themselves Christian. That's true, but it'd be better if they just changed their beliefs.

[rkwright]

Just a note, I think most 'cafetria Catholics' don't reject too many dogmas (maybe the sacrament reconcillation, and Marian dogmas) but rather they reject many of the moral teachings; birth control, divorce, aborition, ect.

[Justin86]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1413952' date='Nov 4 2007, 12:36 PM']I sorta think that, but the last couple days I've been rethinking. I think the best way to view it is that they reconcile themselves with Church doctrines and submit themselves to the authority of the pope instead of leaving. *shrugs* i know what you mean, but i guess I think it's always better to view things positively.

By the way, my view has changed since the "forgiveness" thread in which I said something about someone who doesn't believe Christian things shouldn't call themselves Christian. That's true, but it'd be better if they just changed their beliefs.[/quote]
I understand what you're saying but if all attempts have been made at reconciliation with the individual and he still insists on rejecting the doctrine or doctrines, then it is best for everyone if the said individual be honest with himself and leave. Its a difficult thing for both parties to do but it must be done for the good of both.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1413959' date='Nov 3 2007, 09:55 PM']Just a note, I think most 'cafetria Catholics' don't reject too many dogmas (maybe the sacrament reconcillation, and Marian dogmas) but rather they reject many of the moral teachings; birth control, divorce, aborition, ect.[/quote]

Note: I edited to poll to add the some of the Marian dogmas and the Sacrament of Penance.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='Lena' post='1413949' date='Nov 4 2007, 03:29 AM'][i]Then, therefore, must modern, liberal so-called "Cafteria Catholics" believe in such doctrines as the divinity of Jesus Christ, the Trinity of Persons in God, the Resurection, Transubstantiation, male-only Holy Orders, and Original Sin?[/i]

do so-called cafeteria catholics [i]not[/i] believe in the above? I mean, since it's pretty basic tenets to the Catholic faith. Otherwise, why call oneself a Catholic.....?[/quote]

It's impossible to define a cafeteria Catholic. As the name suggests, they just pick and choose what they want to believe. Certain cafeteria Catholics may accept the divinity of Christ, the Trinity, the bodily Resurrection, and Transubstantiation, but undermine those beliefs by refusing to abide by Catholic ethics. They can't see how everything is related. Other cafeteria Catholics may start referring to the Blessed Trinity as 'Rock, Redeemer, and Friend' or be unsure about the actual divinity of Christ.

Reassuringly, most of them don't actively choose to be like this. Many of the ones I've met just don't have the best knowledge of what being Catholic is about, as their sources of information are all secular. Better catechesis would help, although it's not the only thing we need.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1413951' date='Nov 3 2007, 09:30 PM']yes, yes, yes.

In order to accurately describe yourself as a Catholic you have to believe in all the doctrines of the Catholic Church. Obviously, under my logic the second poll would be a "yes", and as for the third, if you don't believe in Catholicism then it would be better for everyone if you just left. You're only publicly acknowledging what you already are: not a Catholic.[/quote]

I've never met anyone who always believed everything without question or reservation. During my youth I could have been described as a cafeteria Catholic. By the grace of God I was spared from interacting with anyone who made me feel like less of a Catholic. With the help of great friends, counselors, priests, and spiritual advisers I now understand our church' teachings much better. I still believe that I was Catholic the whole way through. I still believe that God was waiting for me and was faithful to me the whole way through. We have no right to tell someone else that they are not Catholic.

[Lena]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1414028' date='Nov 4 2007, 08:41 AM']It's impossible to define a cafeteria Catholic. As the name suggests, they just pick and choose what they want to believe. Certain cafeteria Catholics may accept the divinity of Christ, the Trinity, the bodily Resurrection, and Transubstantiation, but undermine those beliefs by refusing to abide by Catholic ethics. They can't see how everything is related. Other cafeteria Catholics may start referring to the Blessed Trinity as 'Rock, Redeemer, and Friend' or be unsure about the actual divinity of Christ.

Reassuringly, most of them don't actively choose to be like this. Many of the ones I've met just don't have the best knowledge of what being Catholic is about, as their sources of information are all secular. Better catechesis would help, although it's not the only thing we need.[/quote]

I know a lot of "cafeteria catholics" which isn't a term I really like because it creates a kind of us/them relationship.

[MIKolbe]

all cafeteria catholics are modernist liberals? or are you just asking about modern, liberal cafeteria catholics as a part of the whole of cafeteria catholics?

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='MIkolbe' post='1414124' date='Nov 4 2007, 01:07 PM']all cafeteria catholics are modernist liberals? or are you just asking about modern, liberal cafeteria catholics as a part of the whole of cafeteria catholics?[/quote]

No, most certainly not all "Cafeteria Catholics" are modern (I didn't use the term "modernist" in the poll, and by modern I meant living in the current day and age, though I suppose many could be classified as modernists) or liberal, but for the poll I was referring only to those "Cafeteria Catholics" who were modern and liberal.

[MIKolbe]

thank you for clarifying.

[MIKolbe]

yes, yes, no

[EJames2]

yes, but...
[img]http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/78371088d4.jpg[/img]
[url="http://closedcafeteria.blogspot.com/"]http://closedcafeteria.blogspot.com/[/url]

Edited November 6, 2007 by EJames2

[ColinAH]

If one is to claim a Catholic faith, they must belive in the what the Catholic Chruch teaches. That's not to say they cannot have their doubts, but morally they are obliged to belive in what the Church teachs.

[Mari Therese]

When I was a teen I described myself as a "Cafeteria Catholic". I questioned key issues such as male-Only Holy orders, the Trinity, marriage between a man and a woman, and the Sacrament of reconciliation. God is good, He brought me to a Uni with a solid, orthodox Catholic community. I got all my questions sorted out, and thankfully, returned to the Church. I think that part of my problem was that I didn't get answers to the questions that I was asking. There wasn't good solid Catholic teaching in my highschool and my parish. My confusion on those issues was born from a lack of understanding of my faith.