How Original Is Jesus?

[Fidei Defensor]

I don't doubt Jesus was real. But I'm going to play the devil's advocate.

[quote]There are hundreds of writings from the time of Jesus from people who did not believe him to be God, but a liar or crazy... those which tried to kill the movement.[/quote]
Do you have any specific and creditable examples?

[quote]Many things were written hundreds of years before Jesus, describing what the Messiah would be and would happen to him. This which were out of the control of Jesus that happened to him where written in the Old Testament books. These are just a few of the many proofs.[/quote]
It's very easy to make prophesy fit whatever you'd like. How do you take this into account and how does Jesus uniquely fit these "many things?"

[carrdero]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1423015' date='Nov 20 2007, 08:38 PM']Is this thread due to that "Zeitgeist" movie that is making its way around the internet?[/quote]
Good call. It was something that I happen to come across and I thought it would inspire some interesting discussion to some of the forum boards that I frequent. I apologise if this was already discussed on this Phorum. You can also probably understand why I did not post a link.

I didn’t particularlty care for the way this version started but was a bit astonished with the references. After watching the video I had reached a decision that there was really no way one could prove the aspects and characteristics of Jesus’ life let alone lend credibility to the history and claims of these previous myths and legends.

[carrdero]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1423130' date='Nov 21 2007, 12:23 AM']I don't doubt Jesus was real. But I'm going to play the devil's advocate.
Do you have any specific and creditable examples?[/quote]
Credible no but the video did contain specific examples. Way too many to list though. The biggest reference was to the entity described as Horus.

[Myles Domini]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1423169' date='Nov 21 2007, 08:00 AM']Credible no but the video did contain specific examples. Way too many to list though. The biggest reference was to the entity described as Horus.[/quote]

Said it once and I'll say it again. St Justin Martyr's [url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0126.htm"]First Apology [/url]is well worth consulting on this topic. The Fathers inhabited a polytheistic world and they were more than aware of how some people might liken the reports of Christ to other figures in contemporary cults and they felt more than equipped to deal with it.

[Norseman82]

OK, this is the "Zeitgeist" video that inspired this thread:

[url="http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/"]http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/[/url]

Be forewarned, it is almost 2 hours long. The first 30 minutes or so is the debunking of Christianity (warning: some crude language used). The rest is 9/11 conspiracy theories, with a portion at the end devoted to anti-Federal Reserve and anti-IRS themes.

But the first part is a good reference point for this discussion and further apolgetic efforts, and it is interesting that Justin Martyr is quoted in the video (although out of context).

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1423299' date='Nov 21 2007, 12:53 PM']OK, this is the "Zeitgeist" video that inspired this thread:

[url="http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/"]http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/[/url]

Be forewarned, it is almost 2 hours long. The first 30 minutes or so is the debunking of Christianity (warning: some crude language used). The rest is 9/11 conspiracy theories, with a portion at the end devoted to anti-Federal Reserve and anti-IRS themes.

But the first part is a good reference point for this discussion and further apolgetic efforts, and it is interesting that Justin Martyr is quoted in the video (although out of context).[/quote]

woah. pretty disturbing video. many more claims than what i learned in my secular religion class. to a non-believer it seems like it makes pretty good sense with its astonishing parallels. fortunately, "You duped me, O LORD, and I let myself be duped; you were too strong for me, and you triumphed." --Jeremiah 20:7. i've had too many miracles happen to me that if there is a world power that has been manipulating my mind, time, and all matter around me like a sheep as God has, then all i have to say is, "bahhh!".


the other conspiracy theories are pretty astonishing, too. if they are true and will come true, then what are we to do? email the video to everyone? i'll just become a "slave" to religion, give them all my money, live in a religious community, serve God and most of all, be happy.

[dairygirl4u2c]

there's no question jesus was real.

but the question of whether he was a myth or not in as far as what's been applied ot him is an open question.
if you don't consider faith i mean.

[carrdero]

I was only familiar with the Mithras comparison. I had no idea that there were this many references.

[johnnydigit]

apparently around the internet everyone mentions how pitiful that zeitigeist film is and how many false facts it uses. don't think i'm sorry i watched it but i do regret showing it to others in case they get scandalized..

[prose]

The problem with the question: "Is Jesus the Son of God, a liar, or crazy?", is that the answer could easily be "none of the above, he was probably misquoted.".