The Orthodox Churches Recognize The Authority Of The Pope

[ruso]

It's just a start, but the dialogue between Catholics and Orthodox beginning to give results. I don't see a reunification, but the relations improved.
Link to Vatican.


[url="http://212.77.1.245/news_services/press/vis/dinamiche/e0_en.htm"]http://212.77.1.245/news_services/press/vi...miche/e0_en.htm[/url]

[jeffpugh]

Wow, this is great news. Glad this is all happening... will we make progress though? Maybe...

[dairygirl4u2c]

it seems they've been having "talks" for ever. then people get happy about it as progress. then nothing then talks then nothing then talks.
i wouldn't be surprised if it's both sides just thinking, "we'll convert them"... or "this is pointless but we'll do it cause it's the nice thing to do". maybe there's some hints towards genuiness and i'm too cynical. with the info access we got today, i'm sure the pepole high enough to engage in tehse talks have heard it all.

[PapaHilarious]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1420057' date='Nov 15 2007, 07:17 PM']it seems they've been having "talks" for ever. then people get happy about it as progress. then nothing then talks then nothing then talks.
i wouldn't be surprised if it's both sides just thinking, "we'll convert them"... or "this is pointless but we'll do it cause it's the nice thing to do". maybe there's some hints towards genuiness and i'm too cynical. with the info access we got today, i'm sure the pepole high enough to engage in tehse talks have heard it all.[/quote]

i think you might be too cynical. the Catholic/Orthodox dialogue really isn't one of "converting" each other.

[faithfulrock3r]

sounds like the cardinal is downplaying it, but isn't this rather huge? one of the major differences between the EO and the Catholic Church is the primacy of the pope, and this would seem to be a major step in the direction of reconciliation.

[Aloysius]

the reason it's downplayed is because it isn't really all that major; the East has always basically conceded the role of the Pope to be "first among equals" and this seems to be something along those lines. maybe it's more of an opening for the role of that "first among equals" being closer to what the papacy says it is... hard to tell, otherwise, they're just making clear something which was already basically held by both sides... there was never any dispute, that I know of, that in a united East-West Church, the Pope would take his place among the other patriarchs as "first among equals". since they see the Roman Church as schisming from them, the Patriarch of Constantinople has assumed that role, though I think Moscow has always wanted it as well.

[Laudate_Dominum]

There is at least one Orthodox Christian who loves il papa.

[img]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h119/NoonienSoong_2006/orthodox20boy20kisses20popes20hand.jpg[/img]

[Laudate_Dominum]

That picture reminds me of Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country for no particular reason.

"[i]If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it[/i]."

"[i]Don't let it end this way, captain...[/i]"

[Justin86]

I tend to think their isn't going to be any reunification with the Orthodox Church until the laity from both the Latin and the Eastern Churches in communion with us, lay down their pride and join the priesthood.

The schism is over something real. John Paul II often spoke of the hope of reunification by the year 2000. Sadly his dreams were not realized, but I do believe that by the end of this century all Christians will be united under Rome--including Protestants.

[Aloysius]

2054, anyone?

[Justin86]

Should that year mean something to me, lol?

[Aloysius]

exactly 1000 years from the first schism

[rkwright]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1422068' date='Nov 19 2007, 09:48 AM']exactly 1000 years from the first schism [/quote]

1000 years seemingly would heal any wound...

But some people have long memories

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1421629' date='Nov 18 2007, 06:31 PM']The schism is over something real. John Paul II often spoke of the hope of reunification by the year 2000. Sadly his dreams were not realized, but I do believe that by the end of this century all Christians will be united under Rome--including Protestants.[/quote]

Not to be a pessimist, but I'm really not even sure that's possible. When in history have all Christians been united? I think Gnosticism starting to spring up before 100 AD. While unity would be awesome, at the same time, the Church is going to pass away with the rest of this world after Christ returns. I don't expect true unity to happen any sooner, but at least we can take joy in knowing God will make it happen eventually.

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1422033' date='Nov 19 2007, 09:14 AM']2054, anyone?[/quote]

A former Protestant convert to Orthodoxy I talked to once said the same thing, that as we approach the millenial anniversary of the Schism he expects a great emphasis on achieving reunification.

Of course, the events leading to the Great Schism began building in the 3rd and 4th centuries with the tensions that already existed between the East and West also being manifested in the Church. The Schism just made it official. It's definitely a long road, and this is far from the first time that reunification has been attempted, but giving up is certainly not an option. A lot of fruit can come from talks, even if the ultimate goal isn't realized in our lifetimes.

[jeffpugh]

I remember a source given somewhere here on PM saying the schism wasn't really in 1054. It was more along the lines of 1500s when it finally "Happened". Meh, I'll go with 2054. But I don't its a time where we "talk" about reunification. Talk is cheap by then. It's gotta be happening now.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1422447' date='Nov 19 2007, 06:59 PM']I remember a source given somewhere here on PM saying the schism wasn't really in 1054. It was more along the lines of 1500s when it finally "Happened". Meh, I'll go with 2054. But I don't its a time where we "talk" about reunification. Talk is cheap by then. It's gotta be happening now.[/quote]

There was a brief period somewhere around the 1500s, I think following the Council of Florence (going off memory here) when the Catholic and Orthodox Churches were technically united. However, it was purely a political move, probably made under duress from a Catholic monarch, so it didn't last long at all. But as for talk being cheap, while that's true when talking about politicians, celebrities, and business leaders, I'm sure those involved in Catholic-Orthodox dialogue take their responsibility seriously. Of course, on some level, we are all part of that dialogue if all we do is seek to understand the other side's point of view. But if and when reunification happens, if it's going to last, it must be preceded by a lot of talking that will cover all the theological nuances and ensure there isn't a rebellion because something was overlooked.

[Justin86]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1422119' date='Nov 20 2007, 03:26 AM']Not to be a pessimist, but I'm really not even sure that's possible. When in history have all Christians been united? I think Gnosticism starting to spring up before 100 AD. While unity would be awesome, at the same time, the Church is going to pass away with the rest of this world after Christ returns. I don't expect true unity to happen any sooner, but at least we can take joy in knowing God will make it happen eventually.[/quote]
Protestantism is the biggest divider of Christianity in history. More churches were formed from that schism than any other. Even if we can never achieve perfect unity we surly are capable of achieving more unity than what Protestantism is giving us.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1422763' date='Nov 20 2007, 04:22 AM']Protestantism is the biggest divider of Christianity in history. More churches were formed from that schism than any other. Even if we can never achieve perfect unity we surly are capable of achieving more unity than what Protestantism is giving us.[/quote]

I agree... the continued existence of Catholicism and even Orthodoxy are a testament to that, but I'm not going to bash Protestantism. At least they are Christians and assisting in the work of spreading the Gospel. Not that I don't evangelize to Protestant friends, but it seems to me that a lot of Catholics only see what's wrong with them and lose sight of our common ground. Just the other day, a friend of mine asked me about the Catholic Church's position in regards to other Christians. It was a brief conversation and I kept the answer short and simple, which left him thinking that he's been too hard on Catholicism and possibly misunderstood some of our beliefs. So the next time I talk to him, we have a common base to build from to keep us from getting lost in an entangling mess of differences.

That's basically how this Catholic-Orthodox dialogue is going... start with our common belief in the Bishop of Rome as first among equals and move on from there.

Edited November 20, 2007 by LouisvilleFan

[Rosemary's Goddaughter]

I don't think we're going to get anywhere as far as reunification goes until we all put away our flippin' pride. There's more to it certainly, but none among us (Catholics, Orthodox, or Protestants) has had a spotless past. Protestantism may have arisen because we made some pretty bad mistakes, but...who doesn't?

[Justin86]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1422796' date='Nov 21 2007, 12:18 AM']I agree... the continued existence of Catholicism and even Orthodoxy are a testament to that, but I'm not going to bash Protestantism.[/quote]
I didn't bash them either. I just pointed out a flaw of theirs.