How Did The Devil Sign Get Popular?

[littleflower+JMJ]

I would not case this as nothing ...its pretty darn serious and this symbol does have meaning. Which is why the awareness of this symbol is important...its creeped up everywhere in our society and we have probably used it without that intent but it still certainly not good when it comes down to it should definitely not be encouraged or ignore its background/origin/uses.

[ardillacid]

Why don't you guys just say that Jimmy Page and every other metal icon were devil worshipers and get it off your chest?

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1421450' date='Nov 18 2007, 01:50 AM']Yeah I'm sure to most people it means nothing evil. I've even seen a pic or two of JP2 doing it so it certainly seems to have taken on a new meaning for the general populace, but its origins are definitely a little unsettling.[/quote]

i guess that answers my question of whether or not i should worry about using it since i love going to christian rock concerts. i usually use the fist, consciously use the "gun" for one God, or thumb/index/middle for trinity. those i actually thought about, the love/evil sign i didn't think about and not sure if i had my thumb out. i guess from now on i'll make sure my thumb is out. or not do either? i dunno.

thanks for making me paranoid now lol

[Lil Red]

[quote name='littleflower+JMJ' post='1422001' date='Nov 19 2007, 12:12 AM']I would not case this as nothing ...its pretty darn serious and this symbol does have meaning. Which is why the awareness of this symbol is important...its creeped up everywhere in our society and we have probably used it without that intent but it still certainly not good when it comes down to it should definitely not be encouraged or ignore its background/origin/uses. [/quote]
and for most people, it's used as a "rock on" symbol, not a devil worshipping symbol.

[hoosieranna]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1422026' date='Nov 19 2007, 05:58 AM']Why don't you guys just say that Jimmy Page and every other metal icon were devil worshipers and get it off your chest? [/quote]

But they were! They burned black candles, ate chicken, even played guitars with three broken strings because of the power of the number three! Ronnie James Dio was the the worst. "Since You Been Gone" is really about Dio's sale of his soul!

[littleflower+JMJ]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1422127' date='Nov 19 2007, 12:34 PM']and for most people, it's used as a "rock on" symbol, not a devil worshipping symbol. [/quote]

Hey, alot of those metal rockers do know what their doing...look at their music, lyrics and albums. If they can get you to play along...its great for them! And it just gets passes on after that....look how popular it is.

Just be aware that its not as innocent as one thinks just because its been passed along doesn't mean it has lost its purpose...because i'm positive its still used....and things like this should be questioned.

I've learned through ppl who were deep into the black religion and have come out of it who have warned me and urged me that anything from them is serious business and should not be played around with at all. The phrase they always use? "If they only knew....." while shaking their heads.

If anyone wants to make that sign, I can't stop you. But I know personally that something like that should not be taken lightly and you should know what your flirting with.

I just learned all too well that anything that has come from the black religion should not be taken lightly because it is serious stuff and should be stayed away from.

I just think we should be cautious, wake up and be aware of things we partake in many times without thinking or knowing.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='littleflower+JMJ' post='1422156' date='Nov 19 2007, 12:22 PM']Hey, alot of those metal rockers do know what their doing...look at their music, lyrics and albums. If they can get you to play along...its great for them! And it just gets passes on after that....look how popular it is.

Just be aware that its not as innocent as one thinks just because its been passed along doesn't mean it has lost its purpose...because i'm positive its still used....and things like this should be questioned.

I've learned through ppl who were deep into the black religion and have come out of it who have warned me and urged me that anything from them is serious and should not be played around with at all. The phrase they always use? "If they only knew....." while shaking their heads.

If anyone wants to make that sign, I can't stop you. But I know personally that something like that should not be taken lightly and you should know what your flirting with.

I just learned all too well that anything that has come from the black religion should not be taken lightly because it is serious stuff and should be stayed away from.[/quote]
and what about the Catholic musicians who use it at their concerts? are they promoting devil worship by using it?

i agree that there are many things that have dark origins, and symbols have meaning, but what i am against is promoting the attitude of "it's sinful" "you should know what you're flirting with" etc. because there are many people here (including myself) who are scrupulous enough to start thinking "have i been sinning every time i use that symbol?" and who will worry and obsess over it. (like i already am)

and since when has a dark origin of something stopped Catholics from turning it into something for good?

[Lil Red]

[quote name='littleflower+JMJ' post='1422156' date='Nov 19 2007, 12:22 PM']I just think we should be cautious, wake up and be aware of things we partake in many times without thinking or knowing. [/quote]
and scrupulous people like me will start to worry and obsess over every hand gesture they use.

and i think we should not give into the devil by worrying and obsessing over every little thing that we do. because i'm already trying to fight the tendency to be scrupulous, as are others on here.

[littleflower+JMJ]

Okay, just to clarify with your posts LR....

I never said those who use it were "sinful" or "sinning", I said it was dangerous.

If your seeing it at Catholic events, like mentioned before, its because its being tossed around like it has for years, not because its suddenly become good.

If you see nothing wrong with it after reading stuff about it, I have really nothing to say more that I haven't already said in my prior posts.

Obviously we feel differently about it, so I think we'll just leave it at that.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Yay! I'm glad this topic, which was just some late night fooling around on my part, has become so active! It is nice to learn that I'm not the only one who has found the "rock on" phenomenon to be uncomfortable. As I mentioned before, growing up this gesture had one meaning: the salute to satan. Obviously I realize that for most youngsters today this meaning is unknown, but I can't help but find it to be at least tacky.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='littleflower+JMJ' post='1422179' date='Nov 19 2007, 01:00 PM']Okay, just to clarify with your posts LR....

I never said those who use it were "sinful" or "sinning", I said it was dangerous.[/quote]
my apologies. i didn't mean you as in you specifically, but a collective "you". but an example: when i read this, i started obsessing about the fact that i could have been sinning this whole time by throwing up this symbol. (at most a venial sin, but still). and what if i forget the next time i'm rocking out with youth or something and throw it up in the air? am i still sinning? the devil likes to take stuff like this with people like me and screw with us.

[quote name='littleflower+JMJ' post='1422179' date='Nov 19 2007, 01:00 PM']If your seeing it at Catholic events, like mentioned before, its because its being tossed around like it has for years, not because its suddenly become good.[/quote]

[quote name='littleflower+JMJ' post='1422179' date='Nov 19 2007, 01:00 PM']If you see nothing wrong with it, even after reading stuff about it, I have really nothing to say more that I haven't already said in my prior posts. [/quote]
i just am saying that i think the majority of people use it as a 'rock on' symbol than a 'i'm a devil worshipping freak' symbol.

[Laudate_Dominum]

This reminds me of a friend I had as a child who had just come to this country from India. Some mean kids taught him some vulgar words and gestures and lied to him about their meaning. They got a good laugh one day when he used some of these words in class whilst asking the teacher a question. It was very sad, but the teacher was wise enough to realize that he meant no offense and actually responded to his question without reacting to the profanity. Later she pulled him aside and in private explained that those words were vulgar. That poor kid.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1422188' date='Nov 19 2007, 03:25 PM']This reminds me of a friend I had as a child who had just come to this country from India. Some mean kids taught him some vulgar words and gestures and lied to him about their meaning. They got a good laugh one day when he used some of these words in class whilst asking the teacher a question. It was very sad, but the teacher was wise enough to realize that he meant no offense and actually responded to his question without reacting to the profanity. Later she pulled him aside and in private explained that those words were vulgar. That poor kid.[/quote]
Word and symbol meanings change over time or have multiple meanings. Think about the word GAY. First it meant happy, then it meant active homosexual, and now to many people it just means something is lame.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1422232' date='Nov 19 2007, 04:14 PM']Word and symbol meanings change over time or have multiple meanings. Think about the word GAY. First it meant happy, then it meant active homosexual, and now to many people it just means something is lame.[/quote]
For the record I didn't post that story to make a point about the devil sign thing. It was just something that came to mind and I felt like sharing. I don't think that by posting this story I have made a point with reference to the [i]devil sign/rock on[/i] debate.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

While words and symbols often have inherent meaning, some have meanings which vary from culture to culture. I don't think this symbol means anything inherently evil, though it may communicate that to certain people. Therefore, apart from malicious intentions, the sign carries no burden of sin with it. However, it is probably wise not to make the sign too loosely, as it can cause scandal to those who don't realize the person signing doesn't mean what the interpreter thinks (case in point: the above article about George Bush).

Moral theology is not simple enough just to say that so-and-so is sinning because they're using a certain gesture which, regardless of inherent ambiguity, means something sinful to me.

God bless,

Micah

[littleflower+JMJ]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1422188' date='Nov 19 2007, 02:25 PM']This reminds me of a friend I had as a child who had just come to this country from India. Some mean kids taught him some vulgar words and gestures and lied to him about their meaning. They got a good laugh one day when he used some of these words in class whilst asking the teacher a question. It was very sad, but the teacher was wise enough to realize that he meant no offense and actually responded to his question without reacting to the profanity. Later she pulled him aside and in private explained that those words were vulgar. That poor kid.[/quote]

Poor kid! I'm sure the teacher was expecting it though...props for him/her being collected through it all.