St. Isadores Catholic Church (visit)

[VeraMaria]

lol, my church doesn't have "clippies" :rolleyes:

[Brother Adam]

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultima...c&f=28&t=002422

[littleflower+JMJ]

wow. they make it sound like you committed a grave sin to visit a catholic church.

they made it look like you got cooties from going!

why ppl are afraid to learn, why their willing to not even try to learn and just believe those misconceptions is beyond me.

they think we are not christians cuz we are catholic? :sadder:

:shame: now that i will never understand.

props to you bro. adam.

you and your wife are amesome.

im very proud of you, as all of us are.

thank you for sharing with us your experiences and findings.

God bless,

flowery

+JMJ

[VeraMaria]

wjat she said.

ur amesome.

and like you said, if you're strong in faith, u shouldn;t be afraid to learn :D

[BLAZEr]

ok, the clips are a holdover from the day that you used to put your "pew tax" on the clip in front of where you sat. It was different from the collection plate. You used to pay a fee to sit in a certain pew in Church and that was your seat every week. Some pews were built with clips so that people could put their tax for their pew in an envelope right in front of where you sat.

At least that's one version. I am hearing about 5 competing stories here on this one. I just like that one the best, for sheer PODness.

Also, for most priests Sunday is incredibly busy. I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't talk to the priest at all on Sunday. That's the day they're visiting CCD classes, offering masses, taking communion to the sick, etc.

If any of them (or anyone at all) even noticed you (because you weren't regulars) they probably assumed you were just travellers passing through their church. If you keep going back you will eventually be approached, I figure.

Also, the priest should have fractured the Host at the point called "the fracture" It's done while we are singing the Lamb of God, right after the sign of peace. He may have done it while you were offering the peace to those around you.

PS I'm glad you chekced out St. Izzys.

[Laudate_Dominum]

but why on earth are there little clips on the pews? The clips looked like what you would hook a coat or something to. What's up with that?

The clips are there for little kids to tinker with so they are kept busy during Mass. j/k, but that's what I used them for when I was little.

Yeah, I was watching pretty closely the whole time, He didn't seem to break it at all. Isn't it usually broken in half? Does it make any difference if it is broken or not to Catholic?

The Mass has a rich symbolism which it can take a lifetime to fully appreciate (especially the Tridentine). The flow of the Mass corresponds to the life of Jesus in different ways. The priest is supposed to break the host (I don't know why that priest didn't) during th Agnus Dei (Lamb of God), this represents Christ's body which was broken for us (by his stripes you have been healed). Then the priest is supposed to lift the chalice and broken host and say "behold the lamb of God..etc". This symbolizes the seperation of Christ's body of blood on the cross.

Also, why are there elaborate "shrines" behind the alter? I'm sorry, i don't know how else to describe it. In the middle of it was a cupboard where the Eucharist elements were. Is it just all ment to be artwork? Like a statue, or is there some other purpose to it, and why was there a cupboard in it?

I'm assuming the cupboard you are referring to was the tabernacle. This is where the Eucharist is kept after it's consecrated. The Eucharist is kept in the tabernacle so that His Eucharist Presence will remain in the Church for people who come to pray outside of Mass. Also in case they need to take the Eucharist to the sick or something.

Churches should also have sacred art, what you call shrines I suppose. Some churches are pretty bare while others contain elaborate statues, paintings and other art. There aren't many rules about it, but a Roman Catholic church is required to at least have a crucifix in the front of the Church and a statue of Our Lady and one of St. Joseph. Most churches also have a statue or something of the patron saint of the parish. Also parishes are supposed to have the stations of the Cross on the walls. These are fourteen stations, usually paintings or something, that represent 14 events of Christ's passion and death. These are there to remind us of Christ's great love for us and how He suffered for love of us.

Churches in the East usually have sacred icons all over the Church, especially the iconostasis which seperates the main sanctuary from the congregation.

The point of religious art and the adornment of churches is to make present a sign of spiritual realities and to elevate the mind to holy things (angels, saints, etc.). A really good example of this would be the sistine chapel in Rome which depicts many events of salvation history on the walls and ceiling of the Church. I once met a girl who travelled to Rome on vacation, she was raised buddhist, and she toured Rome looking at all the Churches and seeing all the art and everything. When she finally got to the sistine chapel she spent all day intently gazing at all the art and pondering everything. She had never had the gospel explained to her verbally, but she says that she left that chapel believing in Jesus Christ and understanding the gospel! I had the honor of being at her baptism into the Church. Back in the days before the printing press and when most people could not read anyway, the adornment of churches served more of a role in communicating the faith to people.

Also statues or icons of saints are like having pictures of your loved ones on your nightstand or on your desk at work. It calls to mind there presence and can be a focal point of devotion. That is why these shrines are important in churches. We pray there so it's good to have things that help in prayer like pictures of Jesus and Mary and the saints. And the Mass is a participation in the Heavenly Liturgy described in the book of Revelation. When we pray the sanctus we are praying with the entire host of heaven. We believe that Heaven and earth are united during the Mass so we are worshipping along with all the angels and saints in Heaven, so it is proper to adorn the church with signs and reminders of this.

why don't the priests stick around and talk to anyone after the service? I had a lot of questions I would have liked to ask at that time.

Hehe. I am not aware of a requirement of the Church for priests to do this. At most parishes the priests do go out to shake hands and talk to people as they leave Mass. I've been to parishes that even have social gatherings in the church hall after Sunday Mass.

My personal opinion is that the priest should not go talk after Mass. The saints encourage making a thanksgiving after Mass and I think priests should do this to set an example. Maybe that is what they priest does at that parish? It used to be a much more common practice to remain for 15 minutes or so after Mass to pray silently in Christ's presence and contemplate His gifts and His love and give Him praise and thanks and adore Him.

I hope these answers help Brother!

[BLAZEr]

Then the priest is supposed to lift the chalice and broken host and say "behold the lamb of God..etc". This symbolizes the seperation of Christ's body of blood on the cross.

Sorry but I'm about 99.9% that's not true. First, because each of the Eucharistic Species (bread and wine) is both 100% of Christ's Body AND Blood. It is not true that the Bread Host is his Body and the Wine host his Blood. They are both His Body and Blood.

Also, I don't understand what the seperation would be. His Body still contained blood when it was taken off of the Cross.

[Brother Adam]

Thank you for that very informative post L_D. I suppose I should also take the time to learn all of these things about the Church that isn't theology.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Sorry but I'm about 99.9% that's not true.  First, because each of the Eucharistic Species (bread and wine) is both 100% of Christ's Body AND Blood.  It is not true that the Bread Host is his Body and the Wine host his Blood.  They are both His Body and Blood.

Also, I don't understand what the seperation would be.  His Body still contained blood when it was taken off of the Cross.

Actually this is true. It has nothing to do with the fact that both species contain the whole Christ because I'm talking about the symbolic dimension of the Liturgy. The fact that bread and wine are consecrated symbolizes the seperation of body and blood. But in this respect it is just a symbol, it has nothing to do with the Theological reality of Transubstantiation.

And the symbolism doesn't mean that Christ necessarily lost every drop of blood on the Cross. It means that Christ shed His blood and that this is made present in the Mass. When Christ instituted the Eucharist he said "this is my body" refering to the consecrated bread, and "this is my blood" over the chalice. He didn't say "this is my body, blood, soul and divinity", "and so is this". There are different dimensions to the Eucharist, there is the symbolic dimension and then there is the supernatural reality.

And I'm not making this up, its what the Church teaches. Any book on the Theology of the Mass will explain it. A good concise work being "Calvary and the Mass" by Fulton Sheen.

Edited February 16, 2004 by Laudate_Dominum

[Laudate_Dominum]

And thanks for your post BLAZEr! My post was short and appearantly easily interpretted in a heretical way. Thanks for forcing me to clarify. :)

[Brother Adam]

After your experience today, would you convert to catholocism?

Your question has had me thinking all day long since I read it. Not necessarily on if I want to become Catholic or not, but the way I- "Brother Adam" am precieved on the internet. I look back and have noticed whatever message board I land on I at some point for some reason end up the center of attention. Out of no where this topic is suddenly pinned to the top of the board. On the BaptistBoard I was the center of a moderator scandel years ago. More examples date back all the way to when I first used the internet regularly in 9th grade.

I often leave people confused and going "where on earth does he stand". And thus am often attacked on all sides of the fence. The words "heretic" "God-hater" "lukewarm" "hellbound" are all nothing new to me. People tend to react in fear to things they don't understand or have a hard time with. I would have no doubt if I ever concluded that Catholicism was the work of the devil, there would be those who say I am "swaying away from the truth" or "misguided". And if I were to ever conclude that the reformation was the "tool of the devil" there would also be those that declare I am a heretic. So the conclusion? Who gives a hot d**n what people think. If you convert to Mormonism, the mormons will praise and comfort you in your decision. If you convert to Buddhism, the same, or Catholicism, or Protestantism. And each faith holds their own arguments to why they are right.

So let our eyes be fixed firmly and unsparingly on Jesus. Let our thoughts not stray to the praises or condemnation of men. Jesus died for our sins. He commands our full attention. Luther did not die for our sins, neither did Pope John Paul II. Neither did Carson Weber, or Dustin Seiber. Only Jesus has earned the title of Savior, Lamb of God, Emmanuel.

And as we seek truth, a journey which will never end in our short, simple lives, let us look to the revealed written Word of God as we take in the teachings and doctrines formed for us by learned men. Let us take all ideas and doctrines to God, always, and to the scriptures, to always be sure that everything we believe in is assured or in line with the scriptures.

Let us grow in the greatest gifts we have been given, and worry about debate or arguing as a low priority. We have been given our relationship with Jesus Christ, only through faith in Him. We have been given his revealed Word, and we have been given the gift of the Holy Spirit. Let us focus our thoughts more in prayer than any other place so that we may be accused of "praying without ceasing". Let us take hold of our families and friends, and grip them tight. Through their unconditional love towards us we can find strength. And let us never be weary of the good deeds which we are called as children of God to do. For in these, we lay a firm foundation.

I must remember that I am only one small soul in a divine plan. Yet even one soul is crucial to the plan in its proper place. Let our focus never be on our plan for the future, but how we fit into Gods great and wonderful plan. Our piece of the puzzle may seem awkward and misshaped at times, but God knows just where to place it.

I pray my words have been a blessing to you today.

God be with you.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Thank you Brother Adam! I want to say "Amen Brother!", but I don't agree 100%with everything so maybe I should say "almost Amen Brother!!", j/k

I just want to say thank you for your profound witness and your true Christian charity.

The words "heretic" "God-hater" "lukewarm" "hellbound" are all nothing new to me.

Whoever said these things is an idiot. Ha!! As if!

Peace Brother.

[Brother Adam]

Thank you Brother Adam! I want to say "Amen Brother!", but I don't agree 100%with everything so maybe I should say "almost Amen Brother!!", j/k

I just want to say thank you for your profound witness and your true Christian charity.

Whoever said these things is an idiot. Ha!! As if!

Peace Brother.

I know you would probably take all doctrine and teaching to the Holy See to ensure accuracy. However, the scriptures still commend us to earnestly study them and we know that no teaching can supercede and contradict the scriptures.

Being someone who does not adhere to the authority of the Catholic Church, my firmest foundation for the faith is in the scriptures.

[Laudate_Dominum]

I know you would probably take all doctrine and teaching to the Holy See to ensure accuracy. However, the scriptures still commend us to earnestly study them and we know that no teaching can supercede and contradict the scriptures.

Being someone who does not adhere to the authority of the Catholic Church, my firmest foundation for the faith is in the scriptures.

I actually think what you wrote was amesome Brother Adam, so there! ;)

[Brother Adam]

I actually think what you wrote was amesome Brother Adam, so there!

I'm humbled by your statement. Thank you. -_-

Glory to God in the Highest.

Edited February 16, 2004 by Brother Adam

[cmotherofpirl]

I think Brother you get "pinned" because you have such a fearless honesty about yourself and what you think. You ask questions and you actuallly listen to the response. You hear what we say, not what you think we say. It is a rare and refreshing gift. Thank you.

[inDEED]

I knew I pinned his topic for a good reason...

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

:wub: That's my hubby! :wub:

[Laudate_Dominum]

:wub: That's my hubby! :wub:

aww... :D

[Brother Adam]

lol- and if you ever hope to have me, that's the one you have to convince that the Catholic Church is the one true church.

As Nelson said "Ha-Ha"