Warner Goes Blu

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1498296' date='Apr 12 2008, 09:02 PM']I am not a huge fan of the Disney Corp either, and if you think that Disney chose Blu-ray for viewing pleasure, you are sadly mistaken. Disney's only concern is DRM.[/quote]
I think Eiger said it best as to why Disney backed Blu-ray: It's where the money is. If you're a business, makes sense to me.

HD DVD and Blu-ray's DRM is the exactly the same (AACS) except Blu-ray has the optional BD+ protection, which Disney has not been using. I think your DRM argument works best with Fox, not Disney.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1499905' date='Apr 15 2008, 08:41 AM']PS3 update....DTS and new store

[url="http://gizmodo.com/379783/playstation-3-230-update-is-live-+-new-playstation-store-and-dts+hd-master-audio"]http://gizmodo.com/379783/playstation-3-23...hd-master-audio[/url][/quote]
I came back from vacation and installed the update. DTS-HD MA... hooray!! Another hooray is playback recall.

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='1515215' date='Apr 30 2008, 04:15 PM']I came back from vacation and installed the update. DTS-HD MA... hooray!! Another hooray is playback recall.[/quote]

Playback recall?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='1515211' date='Apr 30 2008, 01:13 PM']HD DVD and Blu-ray's DRM is the exactly the same (AACS) except Blu-ray has the optional BD+ protection, which Disney has not been using. I think your DRM argument works best with Fox, not Disney.[/quote]
That is false. Blu-ray was "sold" to the movie studios as being capable of stronger DRM than HD-DVD. Thus, Sony equipped Blu-ray with BD+, which gives the studios the ability to make a Blu-ray BD+ disc stop working in a Blu-ray player that is equipped with standard BD+ virtual machine software. Ultimately BD+ DRM is anti-consumerist, because it means that the buyer of a Blu-ray disc does not really own the movie (or television show) that he has purchased; instead, he is simply renting the content for as long as the studio wants the disc to work.

Edited May 1, 2008 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1511406' date='Apr 27 2008, 09:29 AM'][url="http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Netflix/High-Def_Disc_Rentals/Netflix_to_Raise_Prices_for_Blu-ray_Subscribers/1671"]http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Net...ubscribers/1671[/url]

BOOOOOOOOO!

If this happens, I am canceling my subscription[/quote]
Lack of competition normally leads to higher prices, and when you add to that the additional costs associated with the retooling factories to manufacture a disc format (i.e., different physical specifications) that is different than that used by standard definition DVDs and HD-DVDs the increased price is to be expected.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='1515211' date='Apr 30 2008, 01:13 PM']BD+ protection, which Disney has not been using. I think your DRM argument works best with Fox, not Disney.[/quote]
Disney has not be using it YET.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1515285' date='Apr 30 2008, 04:21 PM']Playback recall?[/quote]
Sorry, that was version 2.2, which came out shortly before 2.3 with DTS HD MA.
[quote]You can now resume playing a DVD/BD from the point where you previously stopped it, even if the disc is removed then re-inserted to the console, or the console is turned off entirely.[/quote]
BD-J discs not supported.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1515634' date='Apr 30 2008, 11:45 PM']That is false. Blu-ray was "sold" to the movie studios as being capable of stronger DRM than HD-DVD. Thus, Sony equipped Blu-ray with BD+, which gives the studios the ability to make a Blu-ray BD+ disc stop working in a Blu-ray player that is equipped with standard BD+ virtual machine software. Ultimately BD+ DRM is anti-consumerist, because it means that the buyer of a Blu-ray disc does not really own the movie (or television show) that he has purchased; instead, he is simply renting the content for as long as the studio wants the disc to work.[/quote]
What did I say that was false? You simply restated what I said in more words. DRM on HD DVD and Blu-ray are the same except Blu-ray has the option to use BD+.

A player can be disabled with AACS. HD DVD or Blu-ray, it does not matter.

[quote]The first step is to obtain a set of keys that are stored securely on the BD-ROM disc in an encrypted and packaged form called a Media Key Block (MKB). The MKB stores keys for each make and model of AACS-licensed BD- ROM player in a complex tree structure, thus providing the mechanism to prevent a compromised player from decrypting content. If a particular playback device is known to be compromised, the MKB can be composed so that the set of keys associated with the compro- mised player cannot be processed into valid keys.
[url="http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu5ktER1IO8QAgdJXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMEyc3AzZzBwBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA2FjMg2dGlkA0Y3NTRfODI-/SIG=129209kv5/EXP=1209950893/**http%3a//www.dell.com/downloads/global/vectors/brcp.pdf"]Source[/url][/quote]
[url="http://aacssucks.com/"]Another source[/url] if you like. AACS is a DRM system that is not bound to Blu-ray or HD DVD.

People don't like BD+ because it's not easily circumvented. The focus should not be "not easily," but on circumvented. No DRM system, be it AACS or BD+, can be legally circumvented. This is true whether Blu-ray or HD DVD or some other delivery format.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1515641' date='Apr 30 2008, 11:54 PM']Lack of competition normally leads to higher prices, and when you add to that the additional costs associated with the retooling factories to manufacture a disc format (i.e., different physical specifications) that is different than that used by standard definition DVDs and HD-DVDs the increased price is to be expected.[/quote]
What was in competition with DVD for all those years when movies prices were dropping to less than $10? Never mind that question.

The Netflix proposal has nothing to do with the war between Blu-ray and HD DVD. (HD DVD lost.) Netflix has competition to keep prices low from other online rentals services, video on demand services, and now apparently iTunes with same day as DVD release. The price increase proposal exists because high def optical media's price point has not dropped to the level it took DVD almost a decade to reach. If Microsoft and Toshiba had not dragged out the war as they did, we might be enjoying lower prices now. That's all water under the bridge now.

In regards to Blu-ray vs. HD DVD pricing, it's a common myth that HD DVD's minimal retooling would lead to lower prices than Blu-ray. The fact is Blu-ray media almost always sold at or below HD DVD media's pricing.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1515643' date='May 1 2008, 12:01 AM']Disney has not be using it YET.[/quote]
Prosecute them now for something they have not done or given intentions of doing? Wow. Harsh court judge.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='1517745' date='May 3 2008, 07:59 PM']In regards to Blu-ray vs. HD DVD pricing, it's a common myth that HD DVD's minimal retooling would lead to lower prices than Blu-ray. The fact is Blu-ray media almost always sold at or below HD DVD media's pricing.[/quote]
What proof do you have for this comment?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='1517728' date='May 3 2008, 07:46 PM']What did I say that was false?[/quote]
In one breath you said there was no difference, and then stated a difference. An open contradiction is a falsehood.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='1517748' date='May 3 2008, 08:02 PM']Prosecute them now for something they have not done or given intentions of doing? Wow. Harsh court judge.[/quote]
I'm not being harsh, simply realistic. Disney has not been for the consumer for decades.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='1517728' date='May 3 2008, 07:46 PM']People don't like BD+ because it's not easily circumvented. The focus should not be "not easily," but on circumvented. No DRM system, be it AACS or BD+, can be legally circumvented. This is true whether Blu-ray or HD DVD or some other delivery format.[/quote]
True enough, but why punish everyone for the actions of a few hackers.

When I buy a DVD I expect it to work, unless I badly damage it. I do not look forward to having to buy high def discs over and over again because the studios simply want to make more money by turning my purchase into a limited content rental.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1518450' date='May 4 2008, 07:41 PM']True enough, but why punish everyone for the actions of a few hackers.

When I buy a DVD I expect it to work, unless I badly damage it. I do not look forward to having to buy high def discs over and over again because the studios simply want to make more money by turning my purchase into a limited content rental.[/quote]

All software is sold under a license, technically you cannot sell any software you buy but have to destroy it or ship it back to the company when you are done using it. This doesn't stop people from using the software they buy forever or selling it for that matter. I don't think we have to worry about any studios suddenly deciding to no longer allow our movies to work. We are simply watching media continue to evolve - VHS -> DVD -> Blu-ray -> ?. The DRM system could work great if they specifically decided to market a rental system where they mail you a rental disc that you can simply throw away after a certain period of time because it will stop working. They already do this with video download rentals on sites like amazon.com. Do you really believe one day we are going to wake up and the BDA is going to say "oh, by the way, the $1000 movie collection you own? It doesn't work anymore, we've decided you have to buy ultra-HD or whatever if you want to watch your movies."

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1518446' date='May 4 2008, 04:33 PM']What proof do you have for this comment?[/quote]
eProductWars.com tracked the pricing history of Blu-ray vs. HD DVD. On rare occasions did HD DVD beat Blu-ray pricing. If you would like, you can search the archives of the smackdown forum at HighDefDigest.com and find the HD DVD fans up in arms about Blu-ray studios constantly beating HD DVD with better pricing and promotions like 2 for 1 sales.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1518447' date='May 4 2008, 04:34 PM']In one breath you said there was no difference, and then stated a difference. An open contradiction is a falsehood.[/quote]

My original statement:
[quote]HD DVD and Blu-ray's DRM is the exactly the same (AACS) [b][size=6][color="#FF0000"]except[/color][/size][/b] Blu-ray has the optional BD+ protection, which [b][color="#0000FF"]Disney has not been using[/color][/b].[/quote]
Words failing to find your eyes are highlighted.

It is better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1518450' date='May 4 2008, 04:41 PM']True enough, but why punish everyone for the actions of a few hackers.

When I buy a DVD I expect it to work, unless I badly damage it. I do not look forward to having to buy high def discs over and over again because the studios simply want to make more money by turning my purchase into a limited content rental.[/quote]
You have nothing to worry about if you stay legit. Only thieves worry about security systems.

Don't worry. Your high def discs will work. All of my Blus do. None of them are time limited.

BTW, your treasured DVDs have DRM which is protected the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Have they expired? Do you boycott them?

Edited May 7, 2008 by kamiller42

[Brother Adam]

narnia comes out on Tuesday blu-ray.com gave it a perfect 5.0 in their review. I can't wait!

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1521214' date='May 7 2008, 10:09 AM']narnia comes out on Tuesday blu-ray.com gave it a perfect 5.0 in their review. I can't wait![/quote]

Got a good review at High Def forums as well

[url="http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/885/chroniclesofnarnialion.html"]http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/885/chroni...narnialion.html[/url]