Protestant Relatives

[rkwright]

My Aunt married a Baptist man I guess 10 years or so ago. Hes a very kind man, quiet, good father. He hasn't converted to Catholicism (the only one in our family) so he may at times feel out of place. Either way, my aunt has hoped he would for a long time. She sent me this email this morning... BTW 'Cameron' is my uncle, her husband.

Ryan, I really need your prayers. Between you and me I am really stuggling with my patience regarding Cameron's immature, selfishess, and disrespectful attitude. I have prayed for years he would come around and not even convert, but at least read about our faith. I think he is scared really because it would show him how wrong the Protestants are. He is so hung up on the Bible yet the 1 Timothy 3:15 says the "Church is the pillar and foundation of truth" Then he wants to even argue the the church they are referring to is not the Catholic Church. What other Church was there? I have read Scott and Kimberly Hahn's book Rome Sweet Rome twice and it just makes me cry; if they could change there minds most anyone could! I would love it if he would at least read that book. He is so stubborn though he would even appreciate how knowledgeable Scott is in theology, history...you name it! Anyway I need something stonger than just asking God to open his mind and heart. I have prayed that prayer for 10 years now at the least. What do I do? Is there a certain Saint to ask for intercession? The Rosary? What?

I have always told myself that if Granny Wright could raise 5 boys alone in the Church I could too, but I really want my children to have a father that is not just physically there, but there because we entered into a marriage convenant together and now need to share the Lord's covenant he made with us together with our children.

I know this seems out of the blue... I am sorry to dropped this on you. I can't talk to anyone else really because they will judge Cameron harshly becuase of there love for me and the kids. I think you are the only one in the family who would care enough, but yet be level headed about it. So please share with me if you have any insight, prayers, anything...I am desperate.

Carol


So Pham any advice on this?

[Archaeology cat]

Prayers to St. Monica (mother of St. Augustine, who prayed for his conversion for years).

There's also a great book another Phatmasser (Revprodeji) recommended to me, as I come from a Baptist background. It's [i]Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic[/i]. It does a really good job of going through a lot of the fundamentalist arguments, and it gave my husband insight into my background, too. I hope that helps!

[PapaHilarious]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1451891' date='Jan 28 2008, 08:24 AM']Prayers to St. Monica (mother of St. Augustine, who prayed for his conversion for years).

There's also a great book another Phatmasser (Revprodeji) recommended to me, as I come from a Baptist background. It's [i]Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic[/i]. It does a really good job of going through a lot of the fundamentalist arguments, and it gave my husband insight into my background, too. I hope that helps![/quote]

That book is a very good suggestion, though from the tone of the letter, I get the impression it would go unread. I also like [i]"No Price Too High"[/i] by Alex Jones, though that is about a Pentecostal preacher who converts.

You should ask kateri05 what prayers she said during the five years she was hoping I'd come around. I know she had given up trying to debate, so I think she just entrusted everything to Our Lady.

Something that was key for me was that my Catholic girlfriend (then fiancee and spouse) wouldn't budge on things like going to Mass weekly (daily when possible) and confession often and adoration and all those things. As much as I could hold my own in heated conversations, nothing in my Protestant tradition could compare to something like adoration or the Eucharist. Internally, I had to ask some hard questions about why I didn't have anything in my faith that was so personal to me.

[CatherineM]

My mother was raised Baptist, and my Grandmother was about as devout a Baptist as I have met. She was scandalized when we went to Catholic school. It took years, but not long before she died, when I was a Freshman in college, she admitted to my mom that we sure got a good education. Sometimes it takes lots of time, and just living and showing your faith to them everyday.

Your Uncle though, sounds like a different sort. I don't see how you are going to get him to read a book, but how about videos? Start with something like the Mother Theresa movie. It shows Catholic faith in action, reliance on prayer in times of trouble, and also that we don't care what faith a needy person is before helping them. Then maybe move onto some videos about conversion and faith. I think the Hahn's have some of their stuff on video. We have used some other tapes in RCIA. I think they were put out by the Knights of Columbus. Tell him that these will show him what we believe so that he can have something concrete to criticize.

When I was trying to convert a former roommate, I just put EWTN on the TV in the background. Eventually she started watching it when I wasn't looking, then she started getting up to watch Mother Angelica. Finally she asked me about going to RCIA. People don't read much today, and no one knows how to debate anymore, just to disagree and fight. Use the mediums that work.

[rkwright]

[quote name='PapaHilarious' post='1451999' date='Jan 28 2008, 03:13 PM']That book is a very good suggestion, though from the tone of the letter, I get the impression it would go unread. I also like [i]"No Price Too High"[/i] by Alex Jones, though that is about a Pentecostal preacher who converts.

You should ask kateri05 what prayers she said during the five years she was hoping I'd come around. I know she had given up trying to debate, so I think she just entrusted everything to Our Lady.

Something that was key for me was that my Catholic girlfriend (then fiancee and spouse) wouldn't budge on things like going to Mass weekly (daily when possible) and confession often and adoration and all those things. As much as I could hold my own in heated conversations, nothing in my Protestant tradition could compare to something like adoration or the Eucharist. Internally, I had to ask some hard questions about why I didn't have anything in my faith that was so personal to me.[/quote]

In my reply to her I did write some of the things you talk about in your last paragraph. In order for someone to convert there needs to be a strong reason, whether its keeping the family together or a longing for something deeper.

She wrote a quick note back to me and said that she has really tried to be the example at home. She leads them in prayer daily, but feels tired of being the spiritual director and being the one who 'receives mostly conflict from it.'

This has been good advice so far. Also a note on the videos, EWTN, ect. The family is living in Germany currently, so they don't quiet have access to a lot of the things we think of. They're new over there (since last summer) and I don't think they quiet have the Catholic community they did here. She feels lucky enough to have some non-German friends, much less good Catholic friends/support network.

[rkwright]

She seems to have a concern for the kids mostly also. Trying her best to raise the kids as good Catholics without facing objections from Dad. Over one of the holidays one of her kids did not make the sign of the cross and my granddad became a bit flustered over it. My little cousin's response was that 'Daddy doesn't do it, why should I?'

[prose]

The funny thing is, I even struggle sometimes with not wanting to spiritually "lead" and my hubby is an active Catholic!

I think it is common for one spouse to feel this.

St. Monica was definitely who I was thinking about also.

As for the other ideas, why not send over some of Scott Hahn's CDs? Or a DVD for them to watch?

[BG45]

Just as a Baptist poking his nose where it doesn't belong...I found [u]Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic[/u] to be dry reading, but absolutely terrific information wise.

I second Prose's suggestion of almost anything (books, CDs, DVDs) by Scott Hahn, because of his gift to relay things in far more simple terminology and at the same time give scriptural support for just about anything he says.

And, just as an aside...decent net connection should be able to load tonight's archived Journey Home which is going to be about a Baptist converting to Catholicism. Not sure if he'd watch a video on a computer screen, but still, just a suggestion. (And how Missy is luring me away from watching the State of the Union...)

[BG45]

Or not on Journey Home, former Baptist guest couldn't make it.

[Dismas]

A devotion to Sts. Monica and Augustine is a must.
A Green Scapular is also a good idea, preferably in an unseen location, like cut into the underside of the box spring.
A vial of holy water, or better in an unmarked container, is useful while cooking.

However, I suppose we are dealing with something that is not entirely spiritual resistance. I suppose it is a mix of acedia (spiritual sloth) and anti-Catholic stigma. So here's my plan:

I would tread delicately on the subject, yet the Bible is a powerful weapon in the Catholic arsenal, and one that cannot be denied by Protestants. I would suggest the RSV-CE, though I wouldn't shy too much from a NKJV for his comfort, as we won't be reading from a bastardized Paul or looking for the deutercanonicals.

Go to the Psalms - yes, the Psalms. I would have your aunt pray one every night with your uncle. This is a powerful prayer, as it is sharing with the Divine Office of the Liturgy. That's right, simply reciting the psalms is a doorway towards Liturgical practice, the very pulse of the Church. Let the words of the Psalm drift into his mind as he sleeps, and let Christ do the rest.

Also, perhaps on special nights take a chunk out of the Song of Songs.

Sure, this sounds silly, but it's my best advice.

Edited January 29, 2008 by Dismas

[Archaeology cat]

To clarify, I was actually suggesting the book for your aunt at first, to help give background info as to where your uncle is coming from, as it might lead to some discussion. Even though we read it after I'd converted, it did help my husband to understand my background more, and the terminology I'd grown up with.

[Groo the Wanderer]

One thing to add...

Don't hammer it into him and harp on him or you'll prolly push him away from the faith. The act of conversion is one of the heart, not of the mind. You can show him definitive proof that the Church is the one true church, and he may still turn aside if he feels forced.

Gotta remember that we are called to plant the seeds...let the Holy Spirit water them. Set the example, make the information and materials available, and keep the dialog open. Pray pray pray!

It will be an easier road for him and her both if she can present it as 'here is what I believe and why. what do you believe? I really want to know, because it is important to you" and take it from there. Always works better than "you must believe because..." and "well your beliefs are wrong and here's why."


Prayers for y'all - I am still working on my own wifey...at least now she accepts the possibility of the Real Presence and has accepted that our daughter (Lil' Wanderer) has declared herself Catholic....huge step for an evangelical, pentacostal AoG kid!

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1451873' date='Jan 28 2008, 03:36 PM']Anyway I need something stonger than just asking God to open his mind and heart. I have prayed that prayer for 10 years now at the least. What do I do? Is there a certain Saint to ask for intercession? The Rosary? What?[/quote]

Please remind her that prayers don't come in mild, strong, and extra-strong dosages. The best prayer that anyone can make it just to quietly persevere. She seems to be suggesting that there is a hierarchy of effective prayers, and that if she can just get the right formula she will see rapid results. She may have to go on praying for another ten years, but that's less than a second to God. It is important to try and see things from His perspective.

[thequeensindian]

I gotta wonder, if the lady in the opening post didn't want to be married to a Baptist, why did she marry one? I feel sorry for this guy. My own wife has been trying to get me to become Catholic for several years, and lemme tell ya the lack of respect for one's spouses beliefs ain't pretty.

[rkwright]

Thanks for the advice. I think from reading her latest email she just felt a little burnt out and had 'hit rock bottom'. It came early Monday morning so I wonder if there was a fight or something on Sunday.

She knows most of the stuff that is posted here, and in an email I sent I said most of the things above. I think she just needed some extra strength\courage.

It is a tricky situation. I think her biggest problem again is with the kids. Trying to be a great Catholic mother without the support of your husband.