Vagina Monologues. Warning-adult Discussion

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='XIX' post='1464872' date='Feb 17 2008, 08:01 PM']Fair enough, but this is a very far cry from saying "lesbian recruitment propaganda."

That was the only thing that she called "ridiculous," and I don't see anything in your examples that convinces me that they are actually trying to recruit lesbians.[/quote]
Ok, I'll quote myself.

[quote]Oh? I watched The Little Coochie Snorcher That Could on youtube for research purposes. Apparently the word "coochie" means vagina and "snorcher" refers to lesbian oral sex. The original skit involved the lesbian molestation of a 13 year old girl by an adult woman and the skit presents this event as something positive and even "healing."
Then there is the monologue called The Woman Who Loved to Make Vaginas Happy about a lesbian dominatrix who loves "giving women pleasure" which culminates in the "triple orgasm" performance.

I'm not the only one who thinks so either. The view of such feminists as Betty Dodson and Wendy McElroy is that the monologues represent "a blast of hatred at men and heterosexuality." (See salon.com interview; zetetics.com interview and ifeminists.net)

Want to know what is ridiculous? - the "V" monologues. I hope this show isn't your idea of appropriate entertainment.[/quote]

[i]The Woman Who Loved To Make Vaginas Happy[/i] and [i]The Little Coochie Snorcher That Could[/i] provide obvious support for my statement. I don't claim that it applies to every monologue equally but it was an informal statement anyway. I didn't realize that the "Vagina Monologues" had so many zealous apologists on these boards. Just a tad disturbing in my opinion.

Unfortunately it is impossible to have a frank discussion of the pertinent material because it would involve filth that has no place on phatmass. This link provides a little taste of the problems with this show from a secular perspective. [url="http://www.cblpi.org/programs/vday/factsfallacies.cfm"]http://www.cblpi.org/programs/vday/factsfallacies.cfm[/url]
Of course from an orthodox Catholic perspective the problems are much more far reaching.

[Noel's angel]

From what I've read in this thread and the site L_D linked, I can't for the life of me understand why anyone in their right mind would advocate such utter depraved rubbish.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Btw, from what I've seen I think it is perfectly obvious that it would be a sin to watch this show knowing what it contains or to continue watching it after initial subjection. The graphic parodies and descriptions of sexual experiences in the show are essentially pornographic.

[Noel's angel]

I felt bad even reading about it on the link. It's disgraceful.

[Maggyie]

LD probably gets the "recruitment" idea from the monologue about lesbian rape. I believe in the original piece she was twelve or thirteen, but in the version used on campuses etc. it was "sanitized" and her age was boosted to the more "acceptable" fifteen or sixteen - still rape and still disgraceful. I am waiting for all the accolades for a play about a fifteen or sixteen year old boy who had a similar encounter with, oh, say, a priest and how it "empowered" him, blah blah blah. Oh no, wait, even radical feminists recognize that as foul abuse.

[cmotherofpirl]

I read the entire book and it is disgusting.
I only read it so I could discuss it with my radically liberal cousins who think it is just wonderful and empowering.
[note to Dust: we need a barfing smiley for topics like these]

[Socrates]

There was a big debate on this disgusting performance a year or two ago. Though admittedly I have not seen it, I have not heard anything to make me see any merit in a monologue of graphic and vulgar sex talk, and tales of lesbian rape.

Modern feminism is an absurd travesty.
If I were to babble on in public about my penis ad nauseum in graphic and vulgar terms, people would simply think me a boor. (Unless, perhaps, it had homosexual context, in which case it might be eligible for an NEA grant)
Yet, it seems that in contemporary feminism, women acting vulgar and slutty is seen as the height of liberation and empowerment. All-round disgusting and stupid, and does nothing to advance the dignity of women.

As for the oft-repeated argument to not knock it unless you've seen the whole thing, must we as Catholics be obliged to watch every piece of vulgar and pornographic filth in its entirerty before saying a word against it?
I think we've all heard enough about this show to know it is filthy smut. It doesn't matter how "empowering" some may find it.

Edited February 18, 2008 by Socrates

[Justin86]

I just looked up the history of the C-word, and basically it comes from prostitution in London. Now I see why the radical feminists support devulgarizing the word. They want us all to go back to having legalized streets of prostitution to liberate women.

Edited February 18, 2008 by Justin86

[rachael]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1464880' date='Feb 17 2008, 08:27 PM']Unfortunately it is impossible to have a frank discussion of the pertinent material because it would involve filth that has no place on phatmass.[/quote]
I want to know why you want to ban a controversial subject on here because as far as I know, they have always been allowed here, as long as things are kept civil.

Edited February 18, 2008 by rachael

[rachael]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1464904' date='Feb 17 2008, 09:24 PM']I read the entire book and it is disgusting.
I only read it so I could discuss it with my radically liberal cousins who think it is just wonderful and empowering.[/quote]
I respect your opinion on the subject then. Thanks, Cmom.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='rachael' post='1464979' date='Feb 18 2008, 12:30 AM']I want to know why you want to ban a controversial subject on here because as far as I know, they have always been allowed here, as long as things are kept civil.[/quote]
I wasn't trying to imply that I want to ban the subject, I just meant that I can't present a detailed account of why I find the show in question to be immoral because much of the content that I would have to produce is vulgar and I'm uncomfortable speaking of such things on here. It is a tiresome subject that I feel I've already invested too much time into. Contemporary culture is filled with all kinds of nonsense and I think in this case I'll just forget about this strange show and move in with my life. Can't wait to hear about the next decadent entertainment fad (please not the Penis Monologues!).

[XIX]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1464880' date='Feb 17 2008, 08:27 PM']Ok, I'll quote myself.
[i]The Woman Who Loved To Make Vaginas Happy[/i] and [i]The Little Coochie Snorcher That Could[/i] provide obvious support for my statement. I don't claim that it applies to every monologue equally but it was an informal statement anyway.[/quote]
Well I may be picking nits, but that really glorifies lesbianism as opposed to recruiting for lesbianism. It's still disgusting, but I really don't think the goal of the skit is to convince the audience to turn lesbian.

[quote]I didn't realize that the "Vagina Monologues" had so many zealous apologists on these boards. Just a tad disturbing in my opinion.[/quote]I don't know where you got that from, but apparently it's not this thread. So far, I have seen exactly *zero* apologists for the Monologues. Rachael brought up the topic and aggressively countered your "lesbian recruitment propoganda" statement, but hasn't even begun to give her opinion on the subject. I'm not really sure how you'd peg her as an apologist, at least not yet. At least let her give an opinion; don't assume you know what it is.

[rachael]

[quote]I wasn't trying to imply that I want to ban the subject, I just meant that I can't present a detailed account of why I find the show in question to be immoral because much of the content that I would have to produce is vulgar and I'm uncomfortable speaking of such things on here. It is a tiresome subject that I feel I've already invested too much time into. Contemporary culture is filled with all kinds of nonsense and I think in this case I'll just forget about this strange show and move in with my life. Can't wait to hear about the next decadent entertainment fad (please not the Penis Monologues!).[/quote]

OK then. I'll be seeing you around.

Edited February 18, 2008 by rachael

[rachael]

[quote name='XIX' post='1464999' date='Feb 18 2008, 01:11 AM']Well I may be picking nits, but that really glorifies lesbianism as opposed to recruiting for lesbianism. It's still disgusting, but I really don't think the goal of the skit is to convince the audience to turn lesbian.

I don't know where you got that from, but apparently it's not this thread. So far, I have seen exactly *zero* apologists for the Monologues. Rachael brought up the topic and aggressively countered your "lesbian recruitment propoganda" statement, but hasn't even begun to give her opinion on the subject. I'm not really sure how you'd peg her as an apologist, at least not yet. At least let her give an opinion; don't assume you know what it is.[/quote]
Thank you.

[Laudate_Dominum]

As far as I can tell nobody has undermined any of my actual points in the slightest.

For the third time my pithy original statement which you seem to reject without concrete reasons is in fact supported by at least two monologues: [i]The Woman Who Loved To Make Vaginas Happy[/i] and [i]The Little Coochie Snorcher That Could[/i]. Calling these monologues "lesbian recruitment propaganda" is mild compared to the full description that they deserve. Let's get real for a second though since this is a rabbit hole; do you believe that this show is appropriate and/or morally acceptable? Do you perhaps support the Vagina Monologues? If so, what is your moral evaluation of the content alluded to in the sum of my posts including the link? That's the real issue here and I consider the monomaniacism towards the “lesbian recruitment propaganda” statement to be diversionary and unessential.

[XIX]

As far as I can tell (which granted, it's terribly far) the show is inappropriate overall, and 90-99.9% of Phatmass agrees.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1464995' date='Feb 17 2008, 10:04 PM']I think in this case I'll just forget about this strange show and move in with my life.[/quote]

lies...

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='MIkolbe' post='1465033' date='Feb 18 2008, 01:53 AM']lies...[/quote]
Duty trumps superficial resolutions.

[littleflower+JMJ]

I think we are being alittle too nit-picky.

I might be blind but I have yet to see any aggressively countered comments to LD , and if theres any good reasons that can equally counter we haven't heard any (even though its been invited and still is).

I don't post much but I had to when reading this thread... its disappointing to see how LD is being made out to be ridiculous here when he's not. I guess what I"m saying is I can see where he's frustrations are coming from.

Sheesh, reading some of this stuff I had to check my url address at the top when I read that one to make sure I was on the right website. lol

Peace out peeps.

[cmotherofpirl]

I don't see LD as attacked, just disagreed with. I don't see it as a lesbian recruitment [and I think LD will agree] but a lesbian normalization tool. "Gee because we are all women- its ok to be lesbians, rape young girls, and do degrading things, this is empowering because we all know the real enemy are men".