Opus Dei

[Thomist-in-Training]

This should be pretty self-explanatory. I don't really want a huge debate, but if you have anecdotes you can post them.


*Please only vote for one... I don't know how to make it do that.

Edited March 28, 2008 by Lil Red
fixed the poll for you!

[Lounge Daddy]

I dig Opus Dei.

As for reading, I recently read [i]Ordinary Work, Extraordinary Grace[/i] by Scott hahn, and I would recommend it to anyone. Right now I am halfway through [i]Opus Dei[/i] by journalist John Allen. I am finding it thoroughly enjoyable and informative.

Of course I also have read (and still read) [i]The Way[/i] ever since my grandmother gave me a copy while I was in high school.

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1467518' date='Feb 22 2008, 09:13 PM']I dig Opus Dei.

As for reading, I recently read [i]Ordinary Work, Extraordinary Grace[/i] by Scott Hahn, and I would recommend it to anyone. Right now I am halfway through [i]Opus Dei[/i] by journalist John Allen. I am finding it thoroughly enjoyable and informative.

Of course I also have read (and still read) [i]The Way[/i] ever since my grandmother gave me a copy while I was in high school. [/quote]

wow quite an endorsement by Dr. Hahn himself. they have their critics but i'm still open..

[Veritas]

+

Interesting post.

[Mercy me]

I have loved the wisdom of the books that I have, The Way, The Furrow and The Forge. I have come to understand that there is controversy around the organization Opus Dei. However, I have always found the books to be a great help as I strive for greater holiness.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1467976' date='Feb 23 2008, 10:56 PM']I have loved the wisdom of the books that I have, The Way, The Furrow and The Forge. I have come to understand that there is controversy around the organization Opus Dei.[/quote]

I guess there is controversy around every organization... Admittedly there have been members who were poor examples, but that too happens in every organization. I have been to several Opus Dei events/ meetings and have found nothing heterodox. It is a great organization that leads its willing members into a great and holy life.

I am not a member. Maybe I will be someday.

I have also found the great wisdom in Escriva's writings. I love them. They're my primary source of meditation...

[Mercy me]

Opus Dei is not in this area to my knowledge. So, I have no experience with them.

I highly recommend Escrivas' writings as a great aid. He really has an incredible ability to show how us how to bloom where we are planted very succinctly. How he can put my complicated life into perspective in a few words has been a godsend to me. He shows us how to convert each moment to glorify the Lord.

Edited February 24, 2008 by Mercy me

[Thomist-in-Training]

One of my college professors is a numerary (celibate member who lives in a center) and has a great personality & is very classy.

But, I do find it odd, since there are centers of both women and men near our campus, that they didn't have a table at our "Vocations Fair" the other day--the friars and monks who are nearby both sent representatives. I know they aren't religious [in the noun-plural sense, not the adjective!] but since (I assume) they consider it a vocation too, you would think they would want to take the opportunity to spread the word to the students. That sort of thing makes me think there is some truth in the claim that they are secretive.

My parents strongly distrust them because when we lived somewhere else for a few months in my youth, they spent a lot of time in social circles of supernumeraries and both encountered quite dishonest individuals. I however think this is not a good way to judge an organization, that some of its members are bad. If all of its members are bad, that means it's not working the right way, but as far as I can tell, they generalized too much. One might as well reason:
1. If some members of an organization are bad, the organization is bad.
2. Some Opus Dei members are bad.
3. All Opus Dei members are Catholic.

Whoops, that's not even true... kind of odd that. Ok-- so "Some Opus Dei supernumeraries are bad" and "All Opus Dei supernumeraries are Catholic."
4. Therefore, some Catholics are bad.
5. Therefore, the Catholic Church must be bad.

</rant>

The other thing that I am unsure about is their view of work.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Thomist-in-Training' post='1468212' date='Feb 24 2008, 04:02 PM']One of my college professors is a numerary (celibate member who lives in a center) and has a great personality & is very classy.

But, I do find it odd, since there are centers of both women and men near our campus, that they didn't have a table at our "Vocations Fair" the other day--the friars and monks who are nearby both sent representatives. I know they aren't religious [in the noun-plural sense, not the adjective!] but since (I assume) they consider it a vocation too, you would think they would want to take the opportunity to spread the word to the students. That sort of thing makes me think there is some truth in the claim that they are secretive.

My parents strongly distrust them because when we lived somewhere else for a few months in my youth, they spent a lot of time in social circles of supernumeraries and both encountered quite dishonest individuals. I however think this is not a good way to judge an organization, that some of its members are bad. If all of its members are bad, that means it's not working the right way, but as far as I can tell, they generalized too much. One might as well reason:
1. If some members of an organization are bad, the organization is bad.
2. Some Opus Dei members are bad.
3. All Opus Dei members are Catholic.

Whoops, that's not even true... kind of odd that. Ok-- so "Some Opus Dei supernumeraries are bad" and "All Opus Dei supernumeraries are Catholic."
4. Therefore, some Catholics are bad.
5. Therefore, the Catholic Church must be bad.

</rant>

The other thing that I am unsure about is their view of work.[/quote]

They probably did not have a table because they don't really go out and look for more members (as an organization)... they don't generally publicize their activities and they don't advertise as religious orders do. They believe that it should mostly be word of mouth... unless you go looking for them or personally know someone who is a member you might never come in contact with Opus Dei.

their view of work is that one is morally obliged to do his best and to excel. I believe the same... if you are not working at something in which it is good to excel, then why are you working there? Are you really called to do that work? I know that not everyone is capable of excelling... but every worker should work his hardest.

which views on work are you talking about specifically?

some things I'm not sure about are their views on the home life. For example, Escriva taught that there should only be two religious pieces in every room. This includes a crucifix. His point, though, is that it is better to have fewer religious items and to [b]recognize[/b] it as you enter a room than to be overwhelmed by religious objects and to not even think about them. They are also concerned with having house guests... They explained it by saying, "If I have a friend over to my house from work I may distance myself from him by having many religious objects in one room. They might be freaked out and may not be open to hearing about my faith." That is a legitimate argument, and they also say that bedrooms may be an exception to the rule. That makes sense because most guests won't see your bedroom.

Edited February 24, 2008 by aalpha1989

[jkaands]

There's a great deal online, pro and con about Opus Dei, if you google "opus dei". Anyone can read it and sort it out for themselves.

I do remember reading an account of a female member, uncertain what status, who was kept in a menial position cleaning some of their very expensive headquarters in, I think, NYC (not sure). She finally left. Don't know any real details.

I am suspicious of any organization which is sort of secret, whether it's Opus Dei, or Scientology, or the Mormon church.

Edited February 24, 2008 by jkaands

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='jkaands' post='1468219' date='Feb 24 2008, 04:25 PM']I am suspicious of any organization which is sort of secret, whether it's Opus Dei, or Scientology, or the Mormon church.[/quote]

They don't intend to be secretive... it is very easy to contact them and to discuss opus dei. you just have to try. I did it and was immediately invited to meetings/ nights of reflection/ men's circles. I was even invited to visit their regional center in St. Louis.

[puellapaschalis]

I'm reading a book through for Lent which has many quotations from St. Josemaria's works. I find them very good for reflection (although do remember these are quotations within a larger work by someone else) and inspiration.
I know a few people in Opus Dei and they're great folk. Very faithful and hard-working, super examples to follow.

[Thomist-in-Training]

By views on work I mean the idea that man's highest activity is doing work of some sort (as opposed to contemplation, study, or "leisure the basis of culture"). I have read two different ideas about Christ's hidden life, that He spent it working as a carpenter most of the time, or that He spent it praying and reading Scripture most of the time. Obviously, I have no idea which one is true, but that sort of summarizes the two views of man's highest state. I'm not saying that Opus Dei's views are necessarily totally wrong, I'm just not sure about them. Also the first sentence, for all I know, may not represent their real view of work, so someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Thomist-in-Training' post='1468233' date='Feb 24 2008, 05:02 PM']By views on work I mean the idea that man's highest activity is doing work of some sort (as opposed to contemplation, study, or "leisure the basis of culture"). I have read two different ideas about Christ's hidden life, that He spent it working as a carpenter most of the time, or that He spent it praying and reading Scripture most of the time. Obviously, I have no idea which one is true, but that sort of summarizes the two views of man's highest state. I'm not saying that Opus Dei's views are necessarily totally wrong, I'm just not sure about them. Also the first sentence, for all I know, may not represent their real view of work, so someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong.[/quote]

I don't th ink that they do believe man's highest activity is doing work... When I attended the men's circle I was shown a day in the life of an Opus Dei member. I wrote it down and have it somewhere but I'm not sure where. Escriva called the moment your alarm goes off the "moment of heroism" because sometimes it is very hard to force yourself out of bed right when the alarm goes off. He believed it was very important to get up at that time so that more time is available for prayer. The morning before daily work is spent reading scripture, meditating on it, and praying the rosary (as well as daily Mass, if at all possible). If anything they believe that contemplation IS the highest activity man can do... work is so important to them because they believe that one's image is very important. They think that Catholics should be people who are respected by others, people to whom others look for an example. In the secular world, the easiest way to do this is to be a hard, good worker. Once you have gained trust and admiration it is much easier to express your religious views. This isn't meant to be manipulative at all, it is just a way to make preaching the gospel easier. As St. Francis of Assissi said, "Preach the gospel at all times. When necessary, use words." The evening of an Opus Dei member is spent with the family, and scripture/ Escriva's works are again read before bed. The day is very simple, but very structured. Escriva did not expect his followers to perfect this day right away... everyone makes mistakes. He simply encouraged them to not worry about it when they failed or forgot a prayer time. Just move on and do better the next day.

Does that make sense? Does it clarify their emphasis on work?

[Thomist-in-Training]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1468236' date='Feb 24 2008, 05:12 PM']...
Does that make sense? Does it clarify their emphasis on work?[/quote]

Yeah, pretty much. I guess then it's the "image" part that is a new idea for me. Not new--I think St. Francis de Sales said the same thing--Dress as well as you can while being appropriate to your station. But the idea was that that was for laymen. I guess it's the fact that they are laymen--celibate but not consecrated--that troubles me. I had a series of conversations with a schoolmate whose family is affiliated with Opus Dei about this last; she asked a numerary friend for help explaining who replied that it's the old-timey "superbasico" Christian vocation. But when I think of those type of people I think of martyrs, or of virgins who did make vows...

[MC IMaGiNaZUN]

One of the Brothers I lived with wanted to go to an Opus Dei Mass. He had allready knew someone who had a bad experience with Opus Dei from where he lived before I cannot remember the details on that. But he wanted to see what it was like.

I went with him.

I must say I was rather unimpressed with the Mass as a whole. The music was very difficult to make out, the reader couldnt seem to read most of the reading, and the priest just rushed through the Mass. the homily was rather boring, and he was droning on about you must be a good little boy now.

On the other hand, from what I hear, the church was falling growing old and rusty, Opus Dei took it over, and cleaned the thing up and painted it. The Church was very beautiful (with the exception of the little angel heads all over the place).

I mean there was nothing remarkable about it to tell you the truth. I dont think they are behid all the world's problems.

SHALOM
Bro Mark

[TradMom]

Praised be Jesus Christ...ALLELUIA!

I believe they are a destructive cult and use thought-reform and mind control techniques. Anybody who would like more information is more than welcome to contact me for specific information, websites and material to support my position. Any group that is secretive - and yes, they are secretive - is suspicious. Mormons and Scientologists (like Opus Dei members) are more than willing to discuss their beliefs, but they leave out key and important pieces of their practices and beliefs, claiming they are for people more fully initiated.

By the way, this does NOT mean that Opus Dei members are bad, evil or horrible people. The majority of people who enter destructive cults do so because they want to improve their lives, spirituality or whatever. They DO NOT wake up one day and say, "Hey...I think I'll join a cult!" ANY group that actively and heavily recruits, asks for money or uses the various techniques I mentioned above are suspicious. Lastly, an organization that trains its members to "handle" criticism (or won't tolerate it from its own members!) is highly suspicious.

There is plenty of information available on the internet, and a cursory search should provide lots of fodder. I'm sure, if you will search, you will come across the organization that offers support for families, loved ones and former members of Opus Dei.

Enough said.

[puellapaschalis]

Last week the group I'm part of in my parish invited an Opus Dei lady from Amsterdam to come and give us a talk about the Prelature (in the interests of full disclosure, I'm also working my way through a book of daily meditations written by an Opus Dei priest in Spain - didn't plan it that way, it's just how it worked out). She didn't seem secretive in any way - we had tons of questions and she had great answers. Her love for God and His Church was quite inspiring.

[Chiquitunga]

I know several great people and priests in Opus Dei, and I have never found anything questionable or secretive in any way about them, seriously. They are all very open and friendly people, and seem pretty traditional and in line with all the teachings of the Church to me.

Their priests are also really great for offering extra times throughout the week in my area for Confession, which I really appreciate.

Edited March 27, 2008 by Margaret Clare

[cmotherofpirl]

Opus Dei is a wonderful organization filled with faithful and orthodox Catholics. Have some Opus Dei members committed sins and taken small groups in the wrong direction - sure - any group can be corrupted. But overall they are faithful Catholics committed to carrying out the work of Christ in the world. Accusing them of secrecy is an old tactic, just like the slanders that used to be said of Catholic convents. Attack what you can't understand or haven't the courage to try.

[url="http://www.opusdei.org/"]http://www.opusdei.org/[/url]

[url="http://www.opusdeiblogs.org/"]http://www.opusdeiblogs.org/[/url]