Benny Hinn Crusade In India Attracts 4.8 Million

[Paladin D]

Isn't it sad? http://www.bennyhinn.org/indiaspecialreport.cfm?sp=1

Despite the efforts of the Archbishop of Mumbai, it seems many still attended. However... there are over 1 billion people in India, and not all of them are Catholics. So we cannot know for sure, how many Catholics did attend or not.

It'll be broadcasted on TBN soon...

[Paladin D]

[Hananiah]

Lots of Indian Catholics have been leaving the Catholic Church ever since Cardinal Lourdusamy mixed Hindu rituals into the Mass.

[Paladin D]

Lots of Indian Catholics have been leaving the Catholic Church ever since Cardinal Lourdusamy mixed Hindu rituals into the Mass.

Why hasn't he been removed by the Pope or something?

Just hearing about this makes me think the Catholic Church is weakening...

[FX2]

April 9, 2004

7:00PM  Kansas City, MO

Good Friday Service * Kemper Arena * 1800 Genessee * Kansas City, MO 64102

FRIDAY FRIDAY FRIDAY come see biiiiiiiiig Benny Hinn as he performs LIVE LIVE LIVE on stage at the Kemper Arena. There will be miricales and cheering and ullllllltimate crazieness as Benny Hill preforms his ministries on the day where we should be pious in remember the Lord's death. Tickets only $19.95. Get them at any ticket master location. BE THERE.

Sorry, thats pretty much what came to my mind when i read this. It seems like its just a show he puts on. Any kind of worship, should be in a house of God, not in some basketball arena.

[Dave]

Why hasn't he been removed by the Pope or something?

Just hearing about this makes me think the Catholic Church is weakening...

Don't worry about the Catholic Church weakening. Our Lord said the gates of hell would NOT prevail! :D

[M.SIGGA]

I think it should be said that just because people in these countries go to Benny Hinn crusades doesn't mean they leave the Catholic Church. I have a friend in the Philipines and he said thousands went, but they still come home Catholic. His crusades are sort of like Billy Graham and Bill Bright, in that he doesn't encourage people to leave the Church or their denomination, but re-commit their lives to Christ. Note that I don't agree with Benny Hinn's teachings, but it's not like all these people are Christians leaving the Catholic Church. Most Catholics and Orthodox live in Kerala, not Mumbai (Bombay), but this area is home to the extremely massive Festival and Cult of Ganesh so hopefully there are some Hindus in the crowd.

Edited February 20, 2004 by M.SIGGA

[Brother Adam]

Holy cow. That is scary! :angry:

[M.SIGGA]

Lots of Indian Catholics have been leaving the Catholic Church ever since Cardinal Lourdusamy mixed Hindu rituals into the Mass.

Where did you get word of this happening? It's my impression that the Malankara Rite is one of the most extremely orthodox branches of the Oriental Catholic churches that is so opposed to idolatry and worship of the Hindus that they don't even entertain the idea of using iconography.

[Hananiah]

Where did you get word of this happening?

My information might be off. I read about it in a Catholic Family News article, and they have to be read with a grain of salt. However, this particular article seemed well sourced, so while I disagree with it's conclusions (it claims that Blessed Theresa of Calcutta's beatification Mass was invalid), I don't see much reason to doubt the facts it relates.

http://www.oltyn.com/cfn/beatipagan.htm

It's my impression that the Malankara Rite is one of the most extremely orthodox branches of the Oriental Catholic churches that is so opposed to idolatry and worship of the Hindus that they don't even entertain the idea of using iconography.

This would explain why they would be horrified at the introduction of traditionally Hindu ceremonies into the Mass.

Edited February 20, 2004 by Hananiah

[Hananiah]

I wonder where I could find that book by Kulanday. There are only 3 websites on the internet that reference it.

[M.SIGGA]

My information might be off. I read about it in a Catholic Family News article, and they have to be read with a grain of salt. However, this particular article seemed well sourced, so while I disagree with it's conclusions (it claims that Blessed Theresa of Calcutta's beatification Mass was invalid), I don't see much reason to doubt the facts it relates.

http://www.oltyn.com/cfn/beatipagan.htm

This would explain why they would be horrified at the introduction of traditionally Hindu ceremonies into the Mass.

The link didn't work, but this is really sad news. I dated a girl last year who was Malankara Orthodox and she told me once that Catholics and Orthodox interchangebly worshiped in each others churches sometimes. Are they converting to Orthodoxy or Protestantism?

[Jake Huether]

Dude! Imagine if each person donated just one or two bucks. Hinn could find a nice vacation spot and retire fat and happy!

[Jake Huether]

I read the article. Looks like we have till 2005 to convert Benny (back?) to Catholicism.

Wouldn't that be sweet!

[Laudate_Dominum]

I believe I read that article a couple weeks ago Hananiah, if it's the one I'm thinking of it was complete trash. Was it the one bashing Mother Teresa's beatification Mass?

Anyway, the Mass in India has been the object of liturgical experimentation and inculturation for decades. And the Vatican approved the introduction of a number of Indian cultural adaptations to the Mass that to an outsider might look like nothing less than pagan hindu rituals. I don't know enough about the details to know the exact status. I know defenders of it say that the rituals are only cultural and should not be considered hindu rituals. The critics argue that they are perceived by the Indians themselves as hindu rituals so who knows better? Does anyone know anything more about this? After I read that creepy article I was kind of upset. While I could see through a lot of the authors inflammatory rhetoric, I felt I did not know enough about the subject to really engage some of his arguments.

[M.SIGGA]

For some reason the link was working today on my computer. The same this was said in another article about the canonization mass of St. Juan Diego - Intergrating culture is an important tool of evangelism and some Catholics today need to realize this is how Christianity has always spread. The only difference is that in the West it was done to the Pagan Greeks, Gauls, Celts, Slavs, and Romans.

The Malankara Christians probably would have been unpset anyway because the Mass was done according to the Roman Rite, and this particular Cardinal is from the Roman Rite. Her canonization mass also was an action of the Roman Rite, not the Malankara Church.

In 1963, Vatican II's Sacrosanctum Concilium (nos. 37-40) approved inculturated liturgies, but the Tridentine Mass could not be paganized because Latin, as noted by Pius XII, was "an effective safeguard against the corruption of true doctrine."(2) Inculturation must involve the language of a particular culture.

Cardinal Lourdusamy, chief architect of Hinduizing the Church in India, was a co-celebrant with Pope John Paul at the Hinduized Mass of Beatification. Although taking place in Rome, not India, it was inculturated following another rule of Abp. Marini. Monsignor Michael Wren, a commentator on the Knights of Columbus-funded EWTN broadcast of the ceremonies, said Marini "has explained that there is an attempt to incorporate cultural expressions from the nations from which new saints or blesseds come." The matter-of-fact patter of Monsignor Wren and co-host Raymond Arroyo added a surreal air to the broadcast as they seemed anaesthetized, unable even to express surprise at the obvious novelties. Their nonchalance helped tranquillize viewers into accepting paganism as a nice cultural touch. The mark of a Modernist is his love of novelty. In his condemnation of Modernism, Pope St. Pius X exclaimed, "Far, far from the clergy be the love of novelty! God hateth the proud and the obstinate mind."(30)

It disses the Pope, a Cardinal, the Knights of Columbus, and EWTN. This article is dangerous and misleading and bias and it looks a little bit SSPX along with the rest of the website.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Yep, that's the article I read a while back. As I said before it was trash. It was worse than SSPX in my opinion.

[Laudate_Dominum]

I was just thinking. If the church approved some kind of Indian stuff for their Masses I don't see why it's that big of a thing. First of all it's absurd to say that the Vatican would approve pagan rituals, they aren't stupid! So the thing that they are cultural things and don't imply hindu stuff is probably true.

And I think the Church would want this because historically different cultures had culturally adapted Liturgies (to some extent), that is part of why there are so many rites in the Church. After Trent the Church in the West was mostly consolidated. Maybe the Church wants there to be more liturgical pluralism like there used to be. I don't see what's so scandalous about that when you consider Church history. This is part of the way the Church has been from the beginning.

But of course this should be a prudent thing, it could be taken too far no doubt. I trust the Church's decisions.

[M.SIGGA]

Halos are an example of how Roman culturalism was intergrated into Christianity. Only gods, goddesses were pictured with the Halo behind the head because it was a belief that if a deity appeared to people, the sign it was a deity or a demi-god was that the sun would stand still and follow the person until the deity disappeared. Christmas trees, wedding rings, Yule logs, the unusual placement of our Feast Days is another example. This is why Jehovah's Witnesses and some members of the Church of Christ obstain from these practices to separate themselves from "Romanism." As Catholics we understand that some aspects of culture can be appreciated and intergrated and not conflict with our Faith.

[Hananiah]

I realize that inculturation has a proper place in liturgical development. However, if the people percieve the changes as paganization, I don't think the changes should be forced on them.