Racism In America

[rkwright]

This past week we discussed racism in america and one of the government's responses to fixing racism, affirmative action. Both are very hot button topics, and evoke emotions from all sides.

Please this can be a touchy subject, so play nice. Ironically this is probably one of the reasons no true dialogue can happen since everyone fears the label of a 'racist'. So watch the name calling!

Edit: Just FYI there is still a fiddler on the word h-a-t-e. It replaces it with don't hate, appreciate.

Edited April 5, 2008 by rkwright

[dairygirl4u2c]

my view is that i'm generally against affirmative action. i don't like reverse discrimination.

with that said, if there's a pattern of racism in a given area, then it can fly, as i believe o'conner said. this can be hard to prove, but that's life, and it's better i think empirally thinking that more whites will be benefitted by preventing reverse discrimination, if we have that presumption. racism in a particular situation can be hard to prove, but affirmative action would be beneficial if generally it's occuring.
when there's a pattern of discrimination, then the benefits outweight the few whites who get reverse discriminated against.

if the were to give points for having demonstrated a discriminated past, a few points, that's fine. or, if points are unconstiutional, then looking at it qualitatively instead. case by case basis is optimal.

[Galloglasses]

Fun Fact: Double Standards is used by more then just the Black Community in America.

Paddy: Old generic insult for Irish immigrents or does of close Irish/Catholic descent.
Nowadays, here in ireland, Irish people refer to eachother as Paddy in a self-mocking, jokingly way.

The same way nice black man can be used by a Black person referring to another black person but becomes and insult if someone else uses it. It happens to those of other races too.

I think it has something to do with the fact that you share said race with another person, so when someone of the same race uses it to describe you, its more of a generic greeting. If someone of another race uses it, it sounds like a stigma, or a foul name, almost as if that person of another race has no right to use it.

I have no idea how this problem can be fixed.

[hoosieranna]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1493147' date='Apr 5 2008, 05:41 PM']I think it has something to do with the fact that you share said race with another person, so when someone of the same race uses it to describe you, its more of a generic greeting. If someone of another race uses it, it sounds like a stigma, or a foul name, almost as if that person of another race has no right to use it.[/quote]

The same argument is made for some very deragotory terms (not talking just Paddy) in the US. It is a way of changing something from a negative into a positive. There are certain words I will not say, and I will acknowledge that major mistakes have been made. There are still issues that need to be redressed. That said, it can get ridiculous constantly watching what I say in order not to offend anyone. It is not possible to please everyone, but I am still required to try. Apparently.

[LouisvilleFan]

How can you not vote 5 - Outward hatred still exists? Perhaps a 4 could be reasoned on the grounds that the KKK isn't actively lynching blacks (and Catholics, btw). Institutionalized racism is mostly eliminated, but there are still places where black people will be refused service. I consider that outward racism/hatred, so I voted a 5.

[hoosieranna]

I voted 4. Strides have been made, and I believed those should be acknowledged. However, what you say is absolutely true, and that angers me. It should not be.

[LouisvilleFan]

Of course, what would be interesting is to see how people of various races vote in this poll.

[Lena]

I voted 5, but I'm also thinking not only of racism, but the effects of racism as well. Has anyone taken a "white privilege" quiz? Really interesting results, makes you realize what white privilege really is, and the reasons that it's possible is because of the oppression of others. So, yes, I think racism is still evident in our society, and everything that racism entails makes it a 5.

I remember when a racist group, mostly made up of working-class males, came to the state capitol here and there was a huge protest outside. This is a little off-topic, but various other general H-A-T-E groups like the Young Americans for Freedom (which has a chapter represented on campus) also tell me that racism is very much a part of society today. They're all about white (straight) power.

Edited April 6, 2008 by Lena

[Dismas]

I have difficulty believing things are that bad in terms of white on black racism. Perhaps things are different elsewhere. Perhaps I'm living in a cave. Even so, all levels of business, economic, and social success can and have been filled by black people. Most businesses in the area consider even racist slurs when not in the presence of someone of that race as a fire-able offense, and refusing service likewise.

Yes, the Klan is still around, like a withered old spider crawling on a derelict web. Consider that in the 1920's, the KKK had 4-5 million members. They marched in support of the Democratic Convention (known as the Klanbake) in New York City in 1924, with 10,000 hooded klansmen marching in parade. Significant progress against white on black racism has been made.

True racial harmony (not just perceived or legislated) won't happen in my lifetime. That can only be done by the discarding of "victim status" and receiving the divine gift of forgiveness. As I stated, it won't happen in my lifetime.

Even so, my idea of what a "5" would be is perhaps beyond the imagination of some people, and likewise their "5" is my "2".

[Winchester]

Basing hiring or awarding of contracts on anything other than qualifications is idiocy. Providing government grants to aid minority businesses in becoming competitive with majority businesses makes sense. Targeting minority areas to increase education and the number of job applicants makes sense.

The biggest problems that exist in this country aren't from overt racism, but from the fallout of racism, which in turn feeds the racism that still exists. It's simple fact that you cannot change the minds and hearts of others as easily as you can change yourself.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Dismas' post='1493210' date='Apr 5 2008, 09:37 PM']Even so, my idea of what a "5" would be is perhaps beyond the imagination of some people, and likewise their "5" is my "2".[/quote]

I agree, and what you're thinking is probably what the poll writer intended. If 5 said "outward hatred is prevalant/institutionalized," I'd go with 2 or 3. But all it says is "outward hatred still exists." Of course it still exists. When did it cease to exist?

Edited April 6, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[BeenaBobba]

Yes, I think that racism is still a problem here in America, though admittedly, as a white Rhode Islander who's never been discriminated against, it's hard for me to understand. Anyhow, one of my childhood friends moved back to Texas when he was in his teens, and he said there was a [b]lot[/b] of racial tension in his high school. Plus, I watched a documentary on California correctional facilities where inmates have to be housed according to race to avoid fights and riots. It's sad that they have to be separated, but unfortunately, many (if not most) prison gangs there are split along racial lines.

Generally, I don't like the idea of affirmative action, but it's something I'm willing to tolerate until we can think of a better solution. The ideal is to live in a society where race is irrelevant, and honestly, I think that affirmative action works against that ideal by continuing to emphasize skin color. If I got a job based on the color of my skin, I'd feel offended, almost like I was being patronized. Minorities should be accepted to universities and awarded jobs because they're completely qualified. Skin color shouldn't be an issue at all. On the other hand, minorities still struggle against discrimation, and affirmative action does seem to help them secure jobs and such. All the same, I still think we should work on a better solution.

Edited April 6, 2008 by BeenaBobba

[ChildoftheCreator]

I do think that discrimination exists. I have not seen so much discrimination against blacks from whites as I have against whites from blacks. It could be my area of the country, too, because I do not live in the south. White people are constantly told not to say anything racist, and I haven't heard that many racist comments (at least from people at school.) I must say that the older generation still holds grudges against those of a different skin color.

There is this idea that if you are a minority you cannot be racist and therefore minorities can make fun of whites, but not vice versa. Also certain words can be used within a group, but not by outsiders. I would think that if a person does not want to be called a particular name, they better not use it, otherwise it is setting up a double standard as someone else pointed out.

I had one classmate in an honors class that told us that he had been poked fun of for "acting too white." He took the honors classes and worked really hard in school and was all-in-all an over achiever. For this he was made fun of.

Affirmative action really does seem to be a reversal of discrimination. There is still discrimination going on based on race as opposed to qualifications. Some of my classmates are able to get more awards and college scholarships based on their ethnic background. They may be in the same social class as me, but they still have more opportunities.

Perhaps I am blind to much of the racism because I am Caucasian, which I would not find hard to believe, but these are some of my pet peeves.

[rkwright]

For all those people voting against affirmative action, what should we do to correct past wrongs?

My professor gave this example...

You have two men playing cards. They play many games over a long period of time, yet the white man keeps winning nearly every hand. At some time the players realize the deck is rigged to the white man's advantage. They both realize this is a problem and get a clean deck. But at this point the black man only has say $10 left while the white man has over $100.

Should we do anything to correct this inequality? Or just let them to continue to play with this new deck?

[ChildoftheCreator]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1493561' date='Apr 6 2008, 12:00 PM']For all those people voting against affirmative action, what should we do to correct past wrongs?

My professor gave this example...

You have two men playing cards. They play many games over a long period of time, yet the white man keeps winning nearly every hand. At some time the players realize the deck is rigged to the white man's advantage. They both realize this is a problem and get a clean deck. But at this point the black man only has say $10 left while the white man has over $100.

Should we do anything to correct this inequality? Or just let them to continue to play with this new deck?[/quote]

That is a very good analogy. I suppose that affirmative action does serve its purpose in that it does give minorities a chance to catch up with white people. At what point, though, do we say that minorities have an equal amount of money as the white man?

[cmotherofpirl]

We can start by assuring that every child has a chance at equal education. School district taxes should not be the source of funding districts unless all the money in the state is put tigether and divided equally. Anything else is a disgrace. You wouldn't need affirmative action if everyone had a fair start.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1493733' date='Apr 6 2008, 07:03 PM']We can start by assuring that every child has a chance at equal education. School district taxes should not be the source of funding districts unless all the money in the state is put tigether and divided equally. Anything else is a disgrace. You wouldn't need affirmative action if everyone had a fair start.[/quote]
Exactly! Even within school districts, though, there is great disparity. Schools in the inner city have very little funding for materials, and the teachers end up getting the school supplies because the students don't bring them. While those in the suburbs often (not always) have some money in the budget for supplies, but can also usually count on parents to have supplies and perhaps even volunteer in the classroom at times.

As for affirmative action, I feel that entrance into universities, or hiring practices, should be based on the merits of the person, their qualifications and abilities, not on gender or race. Which brings us back to the issue of inequality in the schools, which needs to be rectified so they all have the same access to this education.

[Autumn Dusk]

Affirmitave action also ignores the fact that many white people can come from rough situations or live in poverty.

For instance. If I was anything but white my college education would of been paid for several times over due to background, problems, and poverty. I worked two jobs while black, Indian, asain and Hispanic girls who came out of poverty enjoyed I-pods, stipends, and a free education including books. They actually made quite a more than me but were eligible for the programs simply on the basis of race.

Edited April 6, 2008 by Autumn Dusk

[Era Might]

I don't think the issue is just economics, but also how we see each other socially and culturally. For example, suppose a new Superman movie were made, and the actor chosen to play Superman were black. I don't think that would go unnoticed. The media image (movies, television, etc.) is largely white. If a movie has a mostly black cast, then I think it is seen as a black movie, and not just a movie. I think this is a significant influence on the perspective of many black Americans, which many white Americans do not fully understand. I don't think blatant racism is still common. However, I do think that there is still a lot of baggage with race.

As a white American, put yourself in the shoes of black Americans. If you turn on a sports game, the fans in the stands will be mostly white. Imagine that you lived in an American society where they were mostly black. And the movies and shows you watched were acted mostly by black people. And factor into that a deeply rooted history of racism against whites in that society. I think you would see race very differently. That doesn't mean that anything and everything you say or feel or do is right or correct. But I think white Americans need to see and understand where others are coming from. As I said, I do not think it is necessarily racism which prevents them from doing so. Rather, there is just a social and cultural gulf between white and black Americans, by which they experience society very differently.

From a Catholic perspective, I think the solution is to respect each other's point of view (being Catholic does not mean we have to see the world exactly the same way, but that our faith is greater than any one point of view); be honest with each other (including constructive and charitable criticism, when necessary); and live out the Gospel together (that includes fellowship, inside and outside the parish).

[Autumn Dusk]

See, though, I live in a very northern location. Its made up of blue-eyed blonde-haird people. I always wanted a doll with brown hair and brown eyes, so I can understand part of the "not having people look like you" in some respect.

However, I've also lived in places very polarized by ethnicity (see the thread on churches in open mike) where white people don't hate, appreciate other white people and discriminate against them more than they do a black or hispanic person. Italians discriminated against polish badly but often got along with black (who enjoyed the same restraunt spots as Italians) whereas polish people could be ignored at a massive rate and often not given a seat.