Youth Ministry Coord 101

[fides quarens intellectum]

Here's a good example of the enthusiasm and optimism i am talking about:
[quote name='Scofizzle' post='1494298' date='Apr 7 2008, 03:05 PM']Keep things centered on Christ in the Eucharist and you will do just fine.[/quote]
[quote name='Scofizzle' post='1494790' date='Apr 8 2008, 01:29 AM']haha thats the same for me. work 45 hours get paid for 30. Why do I love this job so much?[/quote]

[fides quarens intellectum]

[quote name='jmjtina' post='1494567' date='Apr 7 2008, 08:16 PM']and about the Sunday thing. I have a great friend and youth minister who no longer does Sunday's. He strictly reserves it for family and God. (with the exception of selling raffle tickets after Mass) I am not saying every YM should do this, but with a full house of kids, this is something I'm thinking of considering for next year. It would be good to think about that and what you want for the youth group.[/quote]

Yes - that's a good suggestion for him to take to prayer!

i also know a YM who has her main youth group night on Wednesday, and another who moved the teen Mass from 5pm on Sunday to Noon, with youth group immediately following, so that teens could spend Sunday night at home with family.

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1494845' date='Apr 8 2008, 11:09 AM']No, I can not attend a 3-hour parish mission for four nights in a row (12 combined hours of being the youngest person on the room with a bunch of AARP members, which is simply not compatible with youth ministry). No, I will not cancel my youth activities for the parish mission (because it's not compatible with youth ministry).[/quote]

Could you clarify this a bit? Maybe I'm just reading it wrong...

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' post='1494849' date='Apr 8 2008, 11:19 AM']The youth ministers i know personally - the ones who love it, who've done it for a while, who are obviously in the place God wants them, etc - just don't talk like that at all, ever. In fact, when you ask them if they are tired, even after a weekend where they're running on three or four hours of sleep, they'll contradict you in enthusiastic tones that stir the heart. The ones i've known who did talk in the negative are usually the ones who burn out. But then, since i don't know you, again, sorry for the hasty post, and thanks again for the clarification. It could be you were just trying to be funny or something, and i didn't catch it.[/quote]

The problem is that the comment about YM being exhausting work that is rarely appreciated is true of any ministry in the Church. That doesn't mean that those same people aren't given an interior strength by the knowledge that they're helping to save souls, a strength that comes from the Holy Spirit and makes a person more able to do their ministry with passion. Being physically or even emotionally exhausted is not a sign of burn-out, it's a call for rest. Signs of burn out are apathy, lack of faith, and acedia (spiritual sloth). That's when things get nasty.

I don't think that the kinds of comments you're addressing are at all incompatible with people feeling fueled by their ministry. I think they're just two aspects: the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. When we grow tired in our physical nature (which includes emotion to the degree that emotion is involved in chemical processes), we can still be strong in spirit and persevere in faith. It's when we allow our physical exhaustion to spread into our spirits that we're getting into acedia.

No one should expect the Holy Spirit to keep "good" or "effective" youth ministers from being physically tired or even emotionally tired from their jobs. That's not the way God works.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1494856' date='Apr 8 2008, 11:26 AM']Could you clarify this a bit? Maybe I'm just reading it wrong...[/quote]
The parish mission at my church was from 7-10 every night for four nights. It was put on my a musical artist whose style was late 80's at best, and in my opinion and the opinion of all the volunteers, it was not at all fit for youth (even the "retreat" portion of the parish mission was geared toward middle-aged adults...I'm 23 and with the exception of one other young adult, I was the youngest person attending the parish mission by at least 20 years). The youth who did seem interested left 15 minutes into the first night because it was so awful. As a consequence, in the name of a "whole parish mission," all the youth of the parish were left out and had no activities for an entire week. My job is to be an advocate for the good of the youth. It would by better for them to have their own activities or a different host for the parish mission.

[prose]

Again, for me, it comes down to being firm about which is work and which is home.

When I started in ministry, I was happy to be abused. In fact, I thought it made me a better minister. I would be like "I work 5 million hours a week, sleep for a minute on Saturday, and start over. It's thankless, but worth it".

Now, I find that many people are so thankful about having me. I am thanked by parents, by youth, by teachers, by priests. I don't find it thankless at all (of course, this could just be luck for me). I have plenty of thank you cards, or gifts from people thanking me. It is humbling to accept them too. I am continually supported when I need it, and I am not shy to ask anymore either.

I know what people are saying about ministry being lots of hours, but there are lots of "down times" too. There are several times when there is a week with little to plan, so I can recharge. Yes, retreats and things take 20 hours plus in a weekend, but I am careful to have personal time too.

It is really about balance.

Right now, I am the second longest running minister in our Archdiocese. I have watched many people burn out or quit because they felt like they had to save the world.

Numbers don't indicate the movement of the HS either, by the way. You never know. Maybe he lessened your numbers to help you REALLY affect just one kid. Prayer is the key. Listening is the key.

[soccer girl =D]

congrats and good luck! my youth minister just decided to join the capuchin franciscans. right now he's trying to find a replacement but he's one of the coolest people in the world so i dont think that he's gonna be able to find one that even comes close to his amazing coolness. lol so yeah say a prayer for him.....he leaves june 14.

[prose]

Raph:

I would never and am not bashing your ministry by the following statement.

People sometimes see things differently. I cancel my youth activities every year the week of our parish mission. If the youth don't attend, I do. It is a chance for me to be involved in a parish on a level that they are one. I advocate for the youth while I am there through my conversations and prayers, and a re-fuel through the speakers that are talking about adult stuff (mostly), which applies more to me than youth things.

Sometimes as ministers, we get so engrossed in youth retreats and activities (and leading them), that we neglect to get fed on our level.

Also, I have found that by doing this, the parish has started to give me say in the mission. I was able to choose the speaker one year (which all my youth attended and got great reviews), and I can help with the format and the music too.

It is really important that we stay visible to the older parishioners. These are the people the youth NEED to be connected to (I highly recommend Jerry Goebel's books - he talks about this). Our youth need adult leaders. And I mean all adults, not just people who are in their 20s. If the older people don't see us (I mean visually, not figuratively) they are much less inclined to get involved.

I have so much more I want to say about this, but I am worried that people may be taking this as a "I am the best youth minister ever" rant (which I surely am not).

I should write a book.

Edited April 8, 2008 by prose

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='prose' post='1494895' date='Apr 8 2008, 12:26 PM']It is really important that we stay visible to the older parishioners. These are the people the youth NEED to be connected to (I highly recommend Jerry Goebel's books - he talks about this). Our youth need adult leaders. And I mean all adults, not just people who are in their 20s. If the older people don't see us (I mean visually, not figuratively) they are much less inclined to get involved.[/quote]
I agree.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='prose' post='1494895' date='Apr 8 2008, 12:26 PM']Raph:

I would never and am not bashing your ministry by the following statement.

People sometimes see things differently. I cancel my youth activities every year the week of our parish mission. If the youth don't attend, I do. It is a chance for me to be involved in a parish on a level that they are one. I advocate for the youth while I am there through my conversations and prayers, and a re-fuel through the speakers that are talking about adult stuff (mostly), which applies more to me than youth things.

Sometimes as ministers, we get so engrossed in youth retreats and activities (and leading them), that we neglect to get fed on our level.

Also, I have found that by doing this, the parish has started to give me say in the mission. I was able to choose the speaker one year (which all my youth attended and got great reviews), and I can help with the format and the music too.

It is really important that we stay visible to the older parishioners. These are the people the youth NEED to be connected to (I highly recommend Jerry Goebel's books - he talks about this). Our youth need adult leaders. And I mean all adults, not just people who are in their 20s. If the older people don't see us (I mean visually, not figuratively) they are much less inclined to get involved.

I have so much more I want to say about this, but I am worried that people may be taking this as a "I am the best youth minister ever" rant (which I surely am not).

I should write a book.[/quote]
I agree completely. The problem with our parish mission was that it wasn't even a chance for me to refuel. I mean, it was awful, not just in regard to the limited number of those it reached out to, but in its presentation. I stayed two hours out of every three for the parish mission. The talks were...meh...they were okay, but nothing special. I walked out on the meditation the last night, though. Something in me just couldn't take the astral-projection meditation (she wanted us all to be "floating" outside our bodies and going off to "comfortable places" and meeting "special friends" and "flying" through meadows). I completely agree that we need to be fed on our own level as well, but the parish mission I'm talking about wasn't even capable of that. I couldn't take it seriously, to be honest. I went to the parish Jen works for (we work for different parishes, lol) and attended their parish mission and it was great...I would have gone to something like that.

As for being around the adults...we are. They see me. I'm around to greet people after Mass and I make appearances at Church functions. I'm just not going to give up three Saturdays in a row to attend functions that have nothing to do with my ministry.

As for youth volunteers, most of my volunteers are middle-aged. Aside from Jennie, I only have one other helper in her 20's. The kids get plenty of exposure to older folks.



God bless,

Micah

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1494292' date='Apr 7 2008, 03:50 PM']You haven't been confirmed?

It takes a bit of time to get into the swing of any ministry in the Church, even for those of us who've been Catholic our whole lives. I wouldn't worry about it if you feel called to it.[/quote]

I will read thru everything, but I wanted to point out I have been confirmed, but I never went thru confirmation class. I did an RCIA-type thing. My concern is I am not very familiar to the high school confirmation process. ok, now I will read the rest.

[prose]

Raph:

You should talk to your priest. Maybe he would let you have input on what goes on next year.

Like I said, don't get defensive. Your ministry and parish probably is COMPLETELY different than mine (or any one else's for that matter). Any feedback I give is just to provide what my, personal insight is.

I am not from an ultra modern or ultra traditional parish. I run a service-based youth group (meaning we focus on being the hands and feet of Christ). I give retreats on how to be active volunteers in the community. I go to other retreats and rallies (and help lead them or give talks) on God's love for the youth, but when they come back here, I try to get them to focus on loving God back (if that makes sense).

Many of my youth are very secular, and Bible studies are very difficult. I spent a lot of youth group time answering questions (within conversation) about Catholicism, and we open with scripture, but I have never been blessed (like you are) with youth who would be interested in DTS, or other deeper spirituality yet.

Like I said, when I respond to threads like these, I am giving my personal experience. I have seen many, many other YMs who have had completely different experiences.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='prose' post='1494885' date='Apr 8 2008, 10:16 AM']Numbers don't indicate the movement of the HS either, by the way. You never know. Maybe he lessened your numbers to help you REALLY affect just one kid. Prayer is the key. Listening is the key.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
i really needed to hear that this week. thank you.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='prose' post='1494937' date='Apr 8 2008, 01:48 PM']Raph:

You should talk to your priest. Maybe he would let you have input on what goes on next year.

Like I said, don't get defensive. Your ministry and parish probably is COMPLETELY different than mine (or any one else's for that matter). Any feedback I give is just to provide what my, personal insight is.

I am not from an ultra modern or ultra traditional parish. I run a service-based youth group (meaning we focus on being the hands and feet of Christ). I give retreats on how to be active volunteers in the community. I go to other retreats and rallies (and help lead them or give talks) on God's love for the youth, but when they come back here, I try to get them to focus on loving God back (if that makes sense).

Many of my youth are very secular, and Bible studies are very difficult. I spent a lot of youth group time answering questions (within conversation) about Catholicism, and we open with scripture, but I have never been blessed (like you are) with youth who would be interested in DTS, or other deeper spirituality yet.

Like I said, when I respond to threads like these, I am giving my personal experience. I have seen many, many other YMs who have had completely different experiences.[/quote]
I'm sorry, I wasn't meaning to come across defensively. My whole post can be summed up in: "I agree, and I would have attended the entire parish mission regardless of whether my youth were going...if the parish mission were actually worth attending in itself." I was just taking the long route in explaining that I didn't mean that I only go to youth events. I do, however, believe that it is not worth it to cancel youth events in order to go to an event they aren't going to come to. I think that's a matter of misplaced priorities. I'm sure we all agree on that.

BTW, my DTS group needs to be rebooted. We had a lot of interest, but the parents wouldn't give me enough time with the youth to put DTS in a fun context, so a lot of my kids found more entertaining things to do. I still have a core of young people who want to come, though, and I'll build up with that. The founder of DTS told me he had 6 people at first (about what I have right now) and the parish he started at now has 90 youth in DTS.

Anyway, my youth ministry is nothing to be envied. I only hope I can learn more from folks like you who have far more experience than I do.

[kujo]

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' post='1494849' date='Apr 8 2008, 12:19 PM']Sorry if i was hasty in my reply - i didn't mean to say he didn't have the Holy Spirit, if that's how i came across - (yes, i do realize he's baptized!) - the red flags went up for me because of the negative tone he began his post with:

The youth ministers i know personally - the ones who love it, who've done it for a while, who are obviously in the place God wants them, etc - just don't talk like that at all, ever. In fact, when you ask them if they are tired, even after a weekend where they're running on three or four hours of sleep, they'll contradict you in enthusiastic tones that stir the heart. The ones i've known who did talk in the negative are usually the ones who burn out. But then, since i don't know you, again, sorry for the hasty post, and thanks again for the clarification. It could be you were just trying to be funny or something, and i didn't catch it.
i'm sorry that has been your experience. The people i know in ministry who really take care to make personal prayer time a priority appear fueled by the ministry they do. The people i know in ministry who are exhausted are either not puting their relationship with Jesus first, or they later find they are in the wrong ministry. Again, just my experience.[/quote]

Wow.

Again, you are coming off as kind of insulting. The exhaustion that I and others have spoken of is physical, not emotional or spiritual. In fact, I am one of those people who is oddly pumped up at the mass after a retreat weekend. I'm the guy in the back row of the parish, with my flip-flops and retreat t-shirt, unshaven face, rings under his eyes, and raspy voice, clapping and singing along with the songs. Retreats, no matter whether I was serving on or being served, always get me pumped up. Maybe it's delirium! Still, after waiting for all the teens to leave, closing up and locking down the youth room, getting into my van and driving home, I find myself sleeping like an infant.

Anyway, while I am sure that you are not intentionally doing so, you are making it seem that being tired is somehow a suggestion that we are not *meant* to be Youth Ministers. It's probably just a communication problem, like my honest (not negative) tone. It's not a glamorous position, but it is a wonderful blessing in my life to be serving God in this capacity. I wish I had more time and energy to devote to my ministry, but we have to minister to ourselves sometimes, paying homage to what my college priest referred to as "Our Lady of the Pillow."

[quote]"Watch and pray that you may not undergo the test. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." -Matthew 26:41[/quote]

[kujo]

I didn't know this threat had gone continued onto a second page. I just jumped all over that last comment without reading through the rest of the thread. So, sorry if it seemed like I was piling on.

[StColette]

I agree with kujo, the exhaustion that most youth ministers suffer isn't emotional or spiritual, though sometimes any ministry you are part of can do that to you, even our Priests need retreats from the daily grind of their ministries so that they can better serve their flocks. Just because they get tired from time to time does not make them any less called to a particular ministry then to someone who has boundless energy.

You must also take into account the fact that not only are these ministers serving their Churches but they are serving their family and friends away from their daily jobs as well. Many youth ministers have families that require time and energy. It's a miracle I haven't driven Micah crazy. Micah and Adam both are busy taking care of pregnant wives and in Adam's case he already has one child which he devotes time to when he gets home. Poor Micah is constantly having to take care of me because my morning sickness is so severe and after taking your pregnant wife to the hospital 3 times in less than 2 weeks, that would exhaust anyone physically and emotionally no matter how much the Holy Spirit is working in their lives.

Being a Youth Minister is like being a soldier on the front lines. It's grueling hard work which often goes unappreciated or not even thought of. Just like our soldiers get emotionally drained and physically tired (which they do I can speak on behalf of my brother who is in his 12th year of service) our Youth Ministers endure the same. It doesn't make them any less than what they are if they get exhausted.

For some reason this makes me think of 2Cor 12:9

"My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me."

[Brother Adam]

"For some reason this makes me think of 2Cor 12:9

"My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.""

Amen Sista.

Look at the saints too. Most lived difficult, long lives. They dedicated themselves to God's word and the mortification of their own bodies. They were called to exactly what they were doing.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='StColette' post='1494987' date='Apr 8 2008, 03:00 PM']I agree with kujo, the exhaustion that most youth ministers suffer isn't emotional or spiritual, though sometimes any ministry you are part of can do that to you, even our Priests need retreats from the daily grind of their ministries so that they can better serve their flocks. Just because they get tired from time to time does not make them any less called to a particular ministry then to someone who has boundless energy.

You must also take into account the fact that not only are these ministers serving their Churches but they are serving their family and friends away from their daily jobs as well. Many youth ministers have families that require time and energy. It's a miracle I haven't driven Micah crazy. Micah and Adam both are busy taking care of pregnant wives and in Adam's case he already has one child which he devotes time to when he gets home. Poor Micah is constantly having to take care of me because my morning sickness is so severe and after taking your pregnant wife to the hospital 3 times in less than 2 weeks, that would exhaust anyone physically and emotionally no matter how much the Holy Spirit is working in their lives.

Being a Youth Minister is like being a soldier on the front lines. It's grueling hard work which often goes unappreciated or not even thought of. Just like our soldiers get emotionally drained and physically tired (which they do I can speak on behalf of my brother who is in his 12th year of service) our Youth Ministers endure the same. It doesn't make them any less than what they are if they get exhausted.

For some reason this makes me think of 2Cor 12:9

"My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me."[/quote]

My wife is great.

By the way, YM does get appreciated sometimes...right now, though, I'd say the complaints and compliments are about 10:1. Lots of people try to tell you how to do your job (although, if they were in your shoes, I don't imagine they'd do it much differently...you know things they don't), but every once in a while, there's some parent who comes up to you with tears in her eyes thanking you for this or that...and you're like, "I had that kind of impact on your child? I had no idea..."

[kujo]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1494997' date='Apr 8 2008, 04:10 PM'] My wife is great.

By the way, YM does get appreciated sometimes...right now, though, I'd say the complaints and compliments are about 10:1. Lots of people try to tell you how to do your job (although, if they were in your shoes, I don't imagine they'd do it much differently...you know things they don't), but every once in a while, there's some parent who comes up to you with tears in her eyes thanking you for this or that...and you're like, "I had that kind of impact on your child? I had no idea..."[/quote]

Word dude. Great catch.

I hope that the FIDES person who has been stirring the pot doesn't feel like we're attacking her, though.