Hiding A Medal In A Mosque

[CoffeeCatholic]

One thing about the medal which is worthy to note. I believe i remember Our Lady promising that whenever one is lost, one will be found. While I guess purposefully leaving a medal somewhere isn't "losing" it, I think Our Lady will probably work with the gesture. And what is better for conversion than for someone to receive from God a little nudge like that.

One year, when I was working at a Girl Scout Camp and considering conversion (though not acting like it), I went to go on my night off. My car had been locked with the windows up (to keep sneaky campers out) and only I had any keys. When I opened my door, there was a miraculous medal sitting on the driver's seat. And not a brand new looking one, either.

This was key to my conversion. I always said Mary "had it in for me" from the beginning (my birthday is the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe) but who knew? So, yes, leaving MM's is good. I don't really care where it is, it's good. And if it's in a mosque, even better- you can be pretty darn sure the person finding it is in need of Mary's mantel!

[zwergel88]

[quote name='Deb' post='1497784' date='Apr 12 2008, 06:36 AM']I am not really sure that those born into Islam in the middle east have ever been given a chance to even explore Christianity. They do not have the freedom to read the bible or walk into a church of another faith like we do.[/quote]


With the sole exception of Saudi Arabia, I thought that people from the Middle East were pretty much free to practice any faith they want and read whatever they want. The Middle East is the birth-place of Christianity after all so I think people living their pretty much know the basics; this is certainly true with anyone from the Middle East that I have ever known.

[Justin86]

[quote name='zwergel88' post='1498145' date='Apr 13 2008, 07:17 AM']With the sole exception of Saudi Arabia, I thought that people from the Middle East were pretty much free to practice any faith they want and read whatever they want. The Middle East is the birth-place of Christianity after all so I think people living their pretty much know the basics; this is certainly true with anyone from the Middle East that I have ever known.[/quote]
You need to read a copy of the Quran.

I believe most Muslim countries generally kill Muslims who try to convert to another religion. There also is a tax put on the "People of the Book" meaning Jews and Christians. There is of course no penalty for converting to Islam. That's how the Middle East defines relgious freedom for ya.

[Justin86]

To further continue the discussion on the medals.

Exactly why would anyone be offended by the discovery of a religious medallion at a place of worship? Why would anyone automatically assume it was put there as an attempt to evangelize in the first place? Even if they did, why would a medal offend anyone? The whole idea that this is somehow offensive is really silly.

[melporcristo]

JMJ

I have also heard some pretty amazing conversion stories about people who have found the Miraculous Medal in random places.

The Sisters of Life also told me about how they put Miraculous Medals underneath the tables of a gay bar that's located down the street from the Holy Respite of the Sisters of Life.

Edited April 12, 2008 by melporcristo

[puellapaschalis]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1498187' date='Apr 13 2008, 12:09 AM']To further continue the discussion on the medals.

Exactly why would anyone be offended by the discovery of a religious medallion at a place of worship? Why would anyone automatically assume it was put there as an attempt to evangelize in the first place? Even if they did, why would a medal offend anyone? The whole idea that this is somehow offensive is really silly.[/quote]

How would you feel if you came across a tiny copy of the Qu'ran hidden in your church? Or a set of Muslim prayer beads? What if it were tucked behind a statue of Our Lady? Or somewhere on the Sanctuary?

[picchick]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1498187' date='Apr 12 2008, 06:09 PM']To further continue the discussion on the medals.

Exactly why would anyone be offended by the discovery of a religious medallion at a place of worship? Why would anyone automatically assume it was put there as an attempt to evangelize in the first place? Even if they did, why would a medal offend anyone? The whole idea that this is somehow offensive is really silly.[/quote]

This is not silly by any means.

I think that it is fine to place sacramentals anywhere. But we must prudent as to where we put it. Do you honestly think that a muslim will not become offended if they see a Miraculous Medal? I bet that they will. Why else would a medal be in their Church? Someone visiting?

I am not offended. If you want to place green scapulars and medals in people's pockets, under pillows whatever. That is fine. But don't put it in a place where it might become desecrated. We are obligated to protect our sacramentals from becoming desecrated. That is why your bury rosaries and such.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='zwergel88' post='1498145' date='Apr 12 2008, 11:17 PM']With the sole exception of Saudi Arabia, I thought that people from the Middle East were pretty much free to practice any faith they want and read whatever they want. The Middle East is the birth-place of Christianity after all so I think people living their pretty much know the basics; this is certainly true with anyone from the Middle East that I have ever known.[/quote]

You're correct, Zwergel. There is no penalty for converting to another faith in any Middle Eastern country with the exception of KSA. However, in some countries it is much easier to convert than in others. Bahrain, Qatar, Oman and the United Arab Emirates tend to be all right with it. Bibles, Christian books, etc. are sold in bookshops there, along with texts from other religions. (Proselytising or distributing such items to the Muslim population for free, however, is not allowed.) Swathes of Yemen can be quite dodgy where conversions are concerned - I wouldn't like to try it if I lived in the Hadramout. Egypt is also surprisingly intolerant over conversions, given that it has a large minority of Coptic Christians. Nobody is killed for converting there, but numerous things may be done to make life difficult for you - hassle over identity papers, reduced chances at finding employment, difficulties over child custody in the event of a divorce, etc. In short, it depends on where you live.

[Justin86]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1498212' date='Apr 13 2008, 08:34 AM']How would you feel if you came across a tiny copy of the Qu'ran hidden in your church? Or a set of Muslim prayer beads? What if it were tucked behind a statue of Our Lady? Or somewhere on the Sanctuary?[/quote]
I would assume a Muslim attended a Mass and left it there. So what if he's praying for my conversion? Again, how is that offensive?

I'm still trying to get over you people claiming I need to get permission to enter a mosque. Last time I checked all that was required of me was to take off my shoes.

Like I said, it's silly to make this even into an offensive issue. The best argument to made againist is the sacramentals might get descrated, and that all really depends on what the person who may find it decides to do with it. It's defintelty not written in stone. People have planted these in other places before with positive results. I say it's worth the risk.

[DemonSlayer]

Even if there are no official laws in most countries in the Middle East against other religions, you can still be severely persecuted in some places, look at the situation in Iraq, there are those trying to drive out or exterminate Catholicism there.

[prose]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1498212' date='Apr 12 2008, 05:34 PM']How would you feel if you came across a tiny copy of the Qu'ran hidden in your church? Or a set of Muslim prayer beads? What if it were tucked behind a statue of Our Lady? Or somewhere on the Sanctuary?[/quote]

I would put them in the lost and found and assume someone visiting our church had forgotten them.

If it was tucked behind a statue or in the sanctuary, I would do the same thing I would do with Jack Chick tracts. I would throw them in the garbage.

I don't think there is anything wrong with putting sacramentals in these places. I wouldn't do it, but then I rarely give out or distribute sacramentals to Catholics even. (Maybe I should do that more). I think that if the INTENT is good, that there are many, many miracles associated with conversions and sacramentals, so that it would be okay.

[Deb]

[quote name='zwergel88' post='1498145' date='Apr 12 2008, 05:17 PM']With the sole exception of Saudi Arabia, I thought that people from the Middle East were pretty much free to practice any faith they want and read whatever they want. The Middle East is the birth-place of Christianity after all so I think people living their pretty much know the basics; this is certainly true with anyone from the Middle East that I have ever known.[/quote]

No, they may say they have religious freedom but those are only words. Here is info on some countries from the International Religioius Freedom Report. The U.S. was not happy with it. (Note, CPC's are countries of particular concern.)

"[i]Saudi Arabia.[/i] "Freedom of religion does not exist in Saudi Arabia," successive reports have declared. Nevertheless, the kingdom was only designated a CPC in 2004 (King Abdullah states that Saudi Arabia should be likened to the Vatican where only one religion is allowed) HA!

[i]Iran.[/i] The State Department report is damning: "Members of religious minorities -- including Sunni Muslims, Bahais, Jews, and Christians -- reported imprisonment, harassment, intimidation, and discrimination based on their religious beliefs."

[i]Sudan. [/i]But the government came to power in 1989 calling for the Islamization of society and continues to discriminate against non-Muslims and, as in the fighting in Darfur, against Muslims from tribes and groups not affiliated with the ruling party.

[i]Egypt, Israel, Palestine, Turkey, and the United Arab Emirates.[/i] The 2005 report's executive summary mentions Egypt, Israel, Turkey, and the United Arab Emirates. Some improvement is reported in Egypt, but "there continued to be abuses and restrictions." Christians were discriminated against in the public sector and Bahais were denied civil documents. In Israel, the report says, "some non-Jews, primarily Arab Muslims and Christians, continued to experience discrimination in the areas of education, housing, and employment." But "Palestinian violence" is criticized for preventing "some Israelis from reaching Jewish holy sites in the occupied territories." Turkey is reported for "some deterioration in contrast to previous positive trends." The report disapprovingly notes Turkey's "broad ban on wearing Muslim religious dress in government facilities." The United Arab Emirates, whose government was criticized three years ago for giving a platform to Holocaust deniers, wins plaudits for taking "steps that demonstrated respect for religious freedom."

There is not a lot of ability to obtain and read a bible unless you do it clandestinely.

[Cure of Ars]

Sounds kind of passive aggressive to me. I know I wouldn't want other religions hiding things in my church.

[Custos Morum]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1497504' date='Apr 12 2008, 01:40 AM']To evangelise Muslims it is necessary for us to undergo a change in perception ourselves. For example, compare the apostle Paul's first reaction to the crucifixion with that of the average Muslim. Paul found the whole thought horrifying and repulsive. Muslims find the whole thought horrifying and repulsive. We who venerate the cross sometimes forget what a stumbling-block it really is - what a sign of contradiction to the world. [i]The foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom...[/i] We can't appreciate this verse unless we really know how the crucifixion looks. Not a sanitised religious symbol, but a thing 'to make men screen their faces'. Muslims have the beginning of this appreciation, and I envy them for it - great faith and understanding can grow from it. I pray to St Paul to intercede for them.[/quote] great post. Im reading St Thomas Aquinas`apologetics to the Saracens, which has a very good response to the common preoccupation Muslims have with the whole `He begets not`. But I find dialogue very difficult in practice. People get heated up quickly. I only got invited to mosque because they wanted me to convert but realised I had the same intentions for them.

I wouldn`t hide a medal in a mosque because whoever finds it may well chuck it in the bin and desecrate it. It`s best to be blatant and talk to people. more time I just pray for them. Peace