On The Blessed Mother's Sinlessness

[cmotherofpirl]

Go to our catechism and read sections 74-100.

[goldenchild17]

I'm new on here but I just wanted to say that I am currently in what is called a "personal debate" with a protestant on this very issue. We haven't discussed all the issues involved yet but I would like you all to read this debate in it's current state. If you would like to continue this discussion with me here I would be more than happy.

http://www.boredonline.net/~bol/phpbb/view...opic.php?t=4648

And please read the whole thing.

[cmotherofpirl]

WElcome to phatmass!

You are doing very well in your debate.

Look up the words used in full of grace. It means overflowing abundance. I don't think its the same word used to describe Stephen.

THere is a check in board on the open mic board: stop in and introduce yourself.

[ironmonk]

I thought that "All have sinned."

If "ALL" have sinned then one would have to say Jesus sinned, but we know He didn't.

Jesus was an exception.

Likewise: Mary was an exception.

To be "Full of Grace" is to be free from sin.

Only two people in the Bible are called "Full of Grace": Jesus & Mary.

Think of the Old Covenant: 10 Commandments - the Ark of the Covenant was pure.

Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant - Jesus got all of His flesh from her, she was made sinless without the blemish of original sin.

Even Luther believed this.... it was only brought up in question in the last few hundred years...

A few of his writings:

It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" (Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527).

She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin- something exceedingly great. For God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. (Personal {"Little"} Prayer Book, 1522).

The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart. (Sermon, September 1, 1522).

[she is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ . . . She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures. (Sermon, Christmas, 1531).

No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity. (Sermon, Feast of the Visitation, 1537).

One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God's grace . . . Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ . . . Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God. (Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521).

It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of God, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother, Christ is his brother, God is his father. (Sermon, Christmas, 1522)

Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees . . . If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother. (Sermon, Christmas, 1529).

Whoever possesses a good (firm) faith, says the Hail Mary without danger! Whoever is weak in faith can utter no Hail Mary without danger to his salvation. (Sermon, March 11, 1523).

Our prayer should include the Mother of God . . . What the Hail Mary says is that all glory should be given to God, using these words: "Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Christ. Amen!" You see that these words are not concerned with prayer but purely with giving praise and honor . . . We can use the Hail Mary as a meditation in which we recite what grace God has given her. Second, we should add a wish that everyone may know and respect her . . . He who has no faith is advised to refrain from saying the Hail Mary. (Personal Prayer Book, 1522).

Christ . . . was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him . . . "brothers" really means "cousins" here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers. (Sermons on John, chapters 1-4, 1537-39).

He, Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb . . . This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that. (Ibid.)

God says . . . : "Mary's Son is My only Son." Thus Mary is the Mother of God. (Ibid.).

God did not derive his divinity from Mary; but it does not follow that it is therefore wrong to say that God was born of Mary, that God is Mary's Son, and that Mary is God's mother . . . She is the true mother of God and bearer of God . . . Mary suckled God, rocked God to sleep, prepared broth and soup for God, etc. For God and man are one person, one Christ, one Son, one Jesus, not two Christs . . . just as your son is not two sons . . . even though he has two natures, body and soul, the body from you, the soul from God alone. (On the Councils and the Church, 1539).

You can find many great verse references at http://www.ScriptureCatholic.com

God Bless, Love in Christ & Mary

ironmonk

[Guest Shavahn]

Another thing about Mary being sinless: she was assumed body, soul and divinity up into heaven. Only the completely sinless would be taken into heaven in that way (Jesus as well). Though there are many other great and wonderful people in the Bible, that does not make them 'sinless'...They would spend some time in purgatory before they are cleansed and pure enough for the treasures of heaven.

[musturde]

The Blessed Mary herself appeared and told us to pray the Holy Rosary but the reason this whole arguement began was because he thought it was not neccisary to pray to the Blessed Mother.

[Jake Huether]

: she was assumed body, soul and divinity up into heaven

Shavahn,

Welcom to the phorum!

Mary was assumed body, soul and spirit into heaven. Not divinity. Mary was not divine - only God is. I think that's what you meant, but for the sake of those looking...

Just thought I'd clear that up.

Also, I don't know if anyone out there has an issue with this, but I'll bring it up anyway. To be "assumed" into heaven is to be taken up by God - not on your own. Jesus "ascended" into heaven, on his own power. Mary on the other hand was taken up, not on her own power.