God's Will

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

Just to let you know, there will never be any kind of unity in the believers for the moment. Satan knows God wants us all to be unified. So he comes in with his tares into the faith to cause disunity.

There are some here to believe in Theistic Evolution, and others who will say, that doesn't make sense when I compare it to God's character in the Bible.

There are going to be some who will say, Gene Manipulation to cure disease is okay, and others will say, we shouldn't be playing God.

There are going to be some who will say, the Pope in infalliable, and others who will say, he's a man and needs to be accountable. The bishops who let priests abuse children should be held accountable, and the Satanists who masquraded as Christians should definitely be held accountable. I'd prefer to see each and every one of those priests who did that have a hundred pound weight tied around their necks and thrown into the deepest oceans while saying, Jesus says you're too good for this, because he said it would have been better for this to happen than to offend a child trying to learn about Christ!

These things will always plague the unity of the believers because there are tares who are trying to cause division.

Great news though, those evil ones causing the divisions will be gone at the end of the age, as God passes judgment on them. Then the glory of the father will be shined on us for 50 years as Israel comes to repentance!

Edited April 27, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='picchick' post='1511363' date='Apr 27 2008, 09:13 AM']Here is my question:
If the Catholic Church is the true Church, which I believe it is, then is it God's Will that everyone belong to it?

And if this is true then is God's Will not revealed to those people to help them become Catholic?[/quote]

Meg, your questions here are actually really hard for me to answer. When I try to respond to the question if the Catholic Church is the true Church, then it would be God's will for everyone to belong to it, and I get this pit in my stomach. It is really interesting, when I get that pit in my stomach, it is God warning me not to go any farther. I am pretty sure God doesn't want me to answer that question in any way shape and form, and I wanted to say if it was God's will than you should belong.

edited - I believe God's will for you will be revealed to you when you help people have faith in Jesus Christ.

A good friend of mine in Missouri started a ministry to help witches, satanists, and other occultists to come to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, and then his life was never the same again.

Take this as you will.

Edited April 27, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero

[Deb]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1511883' date='Apr 27 2008, 06:18 PM']Meg, your questions here are actually really hard for me to answer. When I try to respond to the question if the Catholic Church is the true Church, then it would be God's will for everyone to belong to it, and I get this pit in my stomach. It is really interesting, when I get that pit in my stomach, it is God warning me not to go any farther. I am pretty sure God doesn't want me to answer that question in any way shape and form, and I wanted to say if it was God's will than you should belong.

I believe God's will for you will be revealed to those who help people have faith in Jesus Christ.

A good friend of mine in Missouri started a ministry to help witches, satanists, and other occultists to come to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, and then his life was never the same again.

Take this as you will.[/quote]

All your response says to me is that I don't have an answer, I don't want to know the truth, so I will just say, Oh God is in the pit of my stomach saying I shouldn't really get into this.
Guess what, God is telling me that it is my duty as a Catholic to spread the news of the Lord Jesus' Christs will, which to bring all to unity in the Catholic Church. It is my duty to evangelize. It is my duty to let the truth be known. So, guess we got a stand off. Course, I do have over a billion people backing me in my truth. Hmmm. You have the pit of your stomach?
Beware of false prophets. They shall want you to believe that they are me. Do not believe them. Take that as you will.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1511883' date='Apr 27 2008, 05:18 PM']I believe God's will for you will be revealed to those who help people have faith in Jesus Christ.[/quote]

What does this mean? Are you saying God's will for "X" will be revealed to "Y" and "Z" because "Y" and "Z" help people have faith in Christ?

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='Deb' post='1511904' date='Apr 27 2008, 05:43 PM']All your response says to me is that I don't have an answer, I don't want to know the truth, so I will just say, Oh God is in the pit of my stomach saying I shouldn't really get into this.
Guess what, God is telling me that it is my duty as a Catholic to spread the news of the Lord Jesus' Christs will, which to bring all to unity in the Catholic Church. It is my duty to evangelize. It is my duty to let the truth be known. So, guess we got a stand off. Course, I do have over a billion people backing me in my truth. Hmmm. You have the pit of your stomach?
Beware of false prophets. They shall want you to believe that they are me. Do not believe them. Take that as you will.[/quote]
Wow, are you offended by what I said.

If you are suppose to evangelize, God will be there working with you with signs and wonders following. Since I am pretty sure now that God doesn't want me in the CC, than you will not be getting me.

So, whose God is really God? Is your God who says you have to force everybody who is not Catholic to be Catholic the God of Israel, or is my God the God of Israel. Let the war of the Gods begin.

If I am wrong, then let the lord judge between you and me Deb. Are you ready for that.

Edited April 27, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero

[CatherineM]

We believe in the one God, the God of Abraham, was the God of Jesus as well. You can't have a war between Gods when there is only one God.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1511935' date='Apr 27 2008, 06:15 PM']We believe in the one God, the God of Abraham, was the God of Jesus as well. You can't have a war between Gods when there is only one God.[/quote]
Apparently, if God is telling me not to belong to the Catholic Church, and Deb says that God is telling her that she needs to evangelize everybody to believe in the Catholic Church, there has be one who is right and one that is wrong.

So either the God I know is not the one true God but a counterfit, or her's is!

I may be wrong, so if I am wrong, then the Lord will sort it out, but if she is wrong, than the Lord will sort it out.

When it comes to spiritual matters, if there is an impasse, then we have to accept there is an impasse and let God determine who is right and who is wrong.

I will be willing to accept my mistake if there is one. Deb, can you accept the same?

Remember, the Bible says there are two Gods, the God of this world, Satan, and the one True God of Israel who sent his son for us to be saved.

Edited April 27, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero

[Deb]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1511940' date='Apr 27 2008, 07:21 PM']Apparently, if God is telling me not to belong to the Catholic Church, and Deb says that God is telling her that she needs to evangelize everybody to believe in the Catholic Church, there has be one who is right and one that is wrong.

So either the God I know is not the one true God but a counterfit, or her's is!

I may be wrong, so if I am wrong, then the Lord will sort it out, but if she is wrong, than the Lord will sort it out.

When it comes to spiritual matters, if there is an impasse, then we have to accept there is an impasse and let God determine who is right and who is wrong.

I will be willing to accept my mistake if there is one. Deb, can you accept the same?

Remember, the Bible says there are two Gods, the God of this world, Satan, and the one True God of Israel who sent his son for us to be saved.[/quote]

Seeing as I never sought out God to begin with and he took me, a pathetic, dispairing, suicidal human being and healed all my wounds, filled my heart with Love, showed me his presence, taught me his word, changed all my interests from secular to religious, took me from bars to daily mass, took my hunger for drugs and replaced it with hunger for his body and blood, let me see that my material possessions are meaningless and helped me get rid of them, replaced my drug and drinking buddies with religious, loving christians, shown himself to me physically and spiritually, graced me with visions and an unbelievable connection to the Holy Spirit, YEAH, I will tell you right now, I know who my God is.

I will NEVER even think for one second that this is a mistake. Ii did not ask for this but, I would rather die that be without MY LORD and MY EUCHARIST. I cry tears of gratitude every single day that I have been lifted up into the arms of my Lord. He is my Master. He owns me. I would NEVER EVER EVER EVER allude to him not being the True God. I would sooner have my heart cut out. That would send me directly to hell.
Jesus Christ is the light, the way and the truth. I was given a gift of incredible faith. I was given a gift that I never even asked for from someone I didn't even believe in. I would not have believed such a thing could even be. I have been given joy and peace that defy description in human terms.

I am living God's will now and it isn't a feeling in my gut, it is pure and in my soul. I was born with the need to live for him, I just never knew it.

P.S. I walked with Satan over three decades. I am well acquainted with him. I was taken from him. Now I am protected against him.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Deb

[Deb]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1511929' date='Apr 27 2008, 07:06 PM']Wow, are you offended by what I said.

If you are suppose to evangelize, God will be there working with you with signs and wonders following. Since I am pretty sure now that God doesn't want me in the CC, than you will not be getting me.

So, whose God is really God? Is your God who says you have to force everybody who is not Catholic to be Catholic the God of Israel, or is my God the God of Israel. Let the war of the Gods begin.

If I am wrong, then let the lord judge between you and me Deb. Are you ready for that.[/quote]

God does not force anyone to anything. He just gives the knowledge of his word and it leads to him. War of the Gods? The Lord judge between you and me? You are different, that is for sure.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='Deb' post='1512110' date='Apr 27 2008, 08:51 PM']God does not force anyone to anything. He just gives the knowledge of his word and it leads to him. War of the Gods? The Lord judge between you and me? You are different, that is for sure.[/quote]
I didn't say God was forcing people. I am saying you are forcing people. You need to calm down, and think about how you are communicating right now.

[picchick]

To clarify...I never was questioning the validity of the CC being the true Church. After years of Church history I know that it is the true Church. No other religion has the history of the CC: good and bad.

I do not think that Deb was saying that she had to force anyone to be Catholic just because she is Catholic. As Christians and more specifically Catholics, I believe that we have a duty to evangelize to our brothers and sisters about our faith then they in turn take it and do what they want with it. Plant it, cultivate it, whatever.

Dairygirl: you bring up a very important thing that I didn't take into account.
[quote]if God wanted it clear to all... then it would be.[/quote]

I thought about this and bring up another question: Why doesn't God make it clear? I mean some people do need a slap upside the head (Me most certainly). Just think of all the saints out there who have: St. Francis, St. Faustina...etc How many of them only converted after God revealed Himself to them? For us, Catholics, it is clear but not to everybody. I can see how this is. Why doesn't God make it clear for everybody?

Of course God might reveal Himself in all sorts of ways as Deb mentions. Some might be more subtly.

Some people will never know about Catholicism and the Truth that goes with it. Even if you hear "Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ" that doesn't mean that you know it. I think that it is up to God to see who tried and who didn't.

So maybe the answer to my question is thus: It is God's Will that all people come to the Church. However, God Wills in in His own time. He reveals Himself to those people. Then from there, with free will, it is up to people to accept Him.

For some reason this deeply saddens me.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='picchick' post='1512227' date='Apr 27 2008, 10:17 PM']To clarify...I never was questioning the validity of the CC being the true Church. After years of Church history I know that it is the true Church. No other religion has the history of the CC: good and bad.

I do not think that Deb was saying that she had to force anyone to be Catholic just because she is Catholic. As Christians and more specifically Catholics, I believe that we have a duty to evangelize to our brothers and sisters about our faith then they in turn take it and do what they want with it. Plant it, cultivate it, whatever.

Dairygirl: you bring up a very important thing that I didn't take into account.
I thought about this and bring up another question: Why doesn't God make it clear? I mean some people do need a slap upside the head (Me most certainly). Just think of all the saints out there who have: St. Francis, St. Faustina...etc How many of them only converted after God revealed Himself to them? For us, Catholics, it is clear but not to everybody. I can see how this is. Why doesn't God make it clear for everybody?

Of course God might reveal Himself in all sorts of ways as Deb mentions. Some might be more subtly.

Some people will never know about Catholicism and the Truth that goes with it. Even if you hear "Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ" that doesn't mean that you know it. I think that it is up to God to see who tried and who didn't.

So maybe the answer to my question is thus: It is God's Will that all people come to the Church. However, God Wills in in His own time. He reveals Himself to those people. Then from there, with free will, it is up to people to accept Him.

For some reason this deeply saddens me.[/quote]

The more I read your posts Meg, the more I like what you have to say.

The very last statement shows you have a deep concern over people's souls. Have you ever considered just taking that deep concern over people's souls and post up Bible Search contact sheets so if people want to contract you they can and you can teach them a Bible Study?

A great pastor said, you don't have to have all theology correct, and be perfect and sinless to teach people and bible study, you just have to care.

I am very impressed by you right now, and I want to challenge you to do this. I think you will learn a lot about God and others and yourself if you do this.

There are things that really prevent me from totally trusting a church that says it is the only true way to God. There's something just not right about that. BTW, I am not saying there are dozens of ways to God either.

[dairygirl4u2c]

people you are reaching out to in bible study... do not care how much you know... they want to know how much you care.

i heard a quote like that somewhere.

but with that said.... this is a debate table, so the focus should be on debate...

[picchick]

You don't understand JIMSH....

I am a NURSING MAJOR....this means I have no social life outside of school. Maybe when I am done I will help at a Bible study in the area. Right now that just is not plausible. Just as you say that God is not calling you to convert to the Church at this time, God is not calling me to do a Bible Study at this time. He is calling me to do well in my school and to finish in that respects.

I do care very much for the souls around me. It is not measured by how many fliers I put up or if I put fliers up at all. I pray everyday for everyone on phatmass. No one can see that but God. As I meet people, I hope that I set an example for those around me. I answer questions that people have about the faith. I feel that you are insinuating that I do not care enough because I am not starting a Bible Study. But, that is not of debate here and I do not wish to debate that hear. If you wish you can start a new thread with that debate

[quote]There are things that really prevent me from totally trusting a church that says it is the only true way to God. There's something just not right about that. BTW, I am not saying there are dozens of ways to God either.[/quote]

There are actually a bunch of ways to God. But most of the paths are twisted and covered with thorns and bristles and have danger written all over them. The CC is the truest, safest, and straightest way to God.

Meg

[kafka]

[quote name='picchick' post='1511363' date='Apr 27 2008, 10:13 AM']Here is my question:
If the Catholic Church is the true Church, which I believe it is, then is it God's Will that everyone belong to it?

And if this is true then is God's Will not revealed to those people to help them become Catholic?[/quote]
of course, yet the Mystical Body of Christ is more encompassing than just the visible members. eg aborted babies.

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1511411' date='Apr 27 2008, 11:45 AM']There's also a difference between God's intermediate will, and his ultimate will. We can't know how his kingdom will unfold, but I suspect that it is going to be one incredible ride.[/quote]
what? God is Eternity, beyond Time and Place. He sees all of history in One Divine Eternal Act.

[quote name='picchick' post='1511429' date='Apr 27 2008, 12:12 PM']I have been mulling over this idea in my head and I want to get other's views on it.

Jesus says, "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life within you." So if we do not drink His Blood and eat His Flesh then we are dead. If we are dead we cannot get to heaven. God wants us to be in heaven because that is why He made us.

God made us to konw, love and serve Him in this world and to be happy with him in heaven forever.

If these things are so, then the only way to get to heaven is to recieve Jesus in the Most Holy Sacrament or Holy Communion. However, those who do not (those of other faiths) do not recieve Holy Communion. So by the statements above, they would not go to heaven. But if God made us to be with Him, would it not be His Will for everyone to become Catholic?

*And I am in no way judging anyone with this post. I do not know how God judges as to who goes to heaven or not. I am just curious*[/quote]
Christ did not mean that litterally. If so then what about babies who do, or people from other Faiths who are good and inculpably ignorant

[quote name='picchick' post='1512227' date='Apr 27 2008, 11:17 PM']So maybe the answer to my question is thus: It is God's Will that all people come to the Church. However, God Wills in in His own time. He reveals Himself to those people. Then from there, with free will, it is up to people to accept Him.

For some reason this deeply saddens me.[/quote]
I agree with you here. I dont know why it makes you sad though? Maybe cause you have a good heart and know how valuable the Faith is. But I think Love is greater. Faith proceeds from love, so even the ignorant may be in the State of Grace. Love is the greatest and first of the theological virtures. Everything depends on this.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='picchick' post='1512433' date='Apr 28 2008, 09:18 AM']I do care very much for the souls around me. It is not measured by how many fliers I put up or if I put fliers up at all. I pray everyday for everyone on phatmass. No one can see that but God. As I meet people, I hope that I set an example for those around me. I answer questions that people have about the faith. I feel that you are insinuating that I do not care enough because I am not starting a Bible Study. But, that is not of debate here and I do not wish to debate that hear. If you wish you can start a new thread with that debate
Meg[/quote]

You know, I use to go to Karatee school in my home town, and the master of the Dojo was really hard on his students? Wanna know why, not because he didn't think they were doing it well enough, but he wanted them to be the best they could be.

My little suggestion is not, you're not doing enough Meg, this is my way of saying, Meg I believe in you, and I believe you can make a great impact on this world, so go for it girl.

[picchick]

[quote]of course, yet the Mystical Body of Christ is more encompassing than just the visible members. eg aborted babies.[/quote]
Agreed. I never meant to make people think that this is not so.

[quote]Christ did not mean that litterally. If so then what about babies who do, or people from other Faiths who are good and inculpably ignorant[/quote]

Christ did mean that literally. However, people who are unable to recieve for a list of reason, who do not know God, inculpably ignorant do not count into this statement. It is for those who it has been taught to. Again, I cannot make judgements only God can. However, for those who have been instructed this passage holds true.

[kafka]

[quote name='picchick' post='1513540' date='Apr 28 2008, 11:32 PM']Christ did mean that literally. However, people who are unable to recieve for a list of reason, who do not know God, inculpably ignorant do not count into this statement. It is for those who it has been taught to. Again, I cannot make judgements only God can. However, for those who have been instructed this passage holds true.[/quote]
that is pretty good. I think you are right.

[picchick]

*bows*

Thank you

[Alycin]

[quote name='picchick' post='1512433' date='Apr 28 2008, 10:18 AM']There are actually a bunch of ways to God. But most of the paths are twisted and covered with thorns and bristles and have danger written all over them. The CC is the truest, safest, and straightest way to God.

Meg[/quote]

Best. Quote. Ever!