JesusIsMySuperHero Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1524406' date='May 10 2008, 07:45 PM']From an Eastern Christian perspective the "abode of the dead" (i.e., Hades or Sheol) is death itself, and Christ destroyed death by death, and brought everlasting life to all mankind.[/quote] Death is still around, or why would death have to be thrown into the bottomless pit. Death is different than Hell, they are two sides of a single coin though. You can't have the one without the other, but they are both separate entities. I know I am going to open up a can of worms again, but people have an agreement with Death and Hell, and no matter if you say I have read the US and UK are in agreement - which means people in the US government are in agreement with people in the UK government. These are the last two of the enemies of Jesus Christ, and the last time I heard, enemies have to be intelligent. You can be in conflict with something in nature, but nature is never an enemy, nor can an object be. By definition an enemy is - One who feels hatred toward, intends injury to, or opposes the interests of another; a foe. Where do you see anything but intelligence, emotions, feelings, and actions, something a place can't do to you! And since when is a place a who? So, yes, Death and Hell are still out and about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 [quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1524468' date='May 10 2008, 07:54 PM']Death is still around, or why would death have to be thrown into the bottomless pit.[/quote] Spiritual death has been destroyed by Christ's death and resurrection, and physical death has been defeated and will cease entirely at the Parousia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 [quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1524468' date='May 10 2008, 07:54 PM']So, yes, Death and Hell are still out and about![/quote] Death and hell are not identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesusIsMySuperHero Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1524476' date='May 10 2008, 09:09 PM']Spiritual death has been destroyed by Christ's death and resurrection, and physical death has been defeated and will cease entirely at the Parousia.[/quote] Yes, spiritual death has been defeated. The this fallen Angel, the Angel of death, is still around, and the second side to that coin, Hell, is also still around, because they are going to play an important role in what God is about to do. Remember, the 4th horseman is Death, and hell will come with him. Death is considered a horsemen, and will come to judge those who would want our harm, and those who think they have an agreement with them are going to find out that Jesus Christ, the head of principalities and powers, is going to revoke it, just like Danny Glover in Lethal weapon 2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 Hell is not a place, and the eternal punishment of the damned only became possible because of the incarnation, passion, death, and resurrection of Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 [quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1524484' date='May 10 2008, 08:14 PM']Remember, the 4th horseman is Death, and hell will come with him. Death is considered a horsemen . . .[/quote] Death is not literally a "horseman." That said, it is important to remember that the book of Revelation is filled with symbolism and metaphor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesusIsMySuperHero Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1524488' date='May 10 2008, 09:17 PM']Hell is not a place, and the eternal punishment of the damned only became possible because of the incarnation, passion, death, and resurrection of Christ.[/quote] Good, we can agree to that. I don't think Hell is a place, and in fact is a fallen angel. You can't have agreements with a place, on an intelligent being. But, remember, that he was the lamb slain from the foundation of the earth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 [quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1524495' date='May 10 2008, 08:26 PM']But, remember, that he was the lamb slain from the foundation of the earth![/quote] This is true proleptically, but not historically, since the incarnation of the eternal Logos took place at a particular moment in time. One must always read scripture according to the scope (Greek: [i]skopos[/i]) of the whole sacred text, and not take isolated verses out of context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 (edited) deleted Edited May 11, 2008 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 [quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1524495' date='May 10 2008, 08:26 PM']Good, we can agree to that. I don't think Hell is a place, and in fact is a fallen angel. You can't have agreements with a place, on an intelligent being.[/quote] Hell (Greek: [i]gehenna[/i]) is not an angel; instead, it is the state of being of those who failed to liken (Greek: [i]omoiosis[/i]) themselves to God through active participation in His uncreated energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1524406' date='May 10 2008, 07:45 PM']From an Eastern Christian perspective the "abode of the dead" (i.e., Hades or Sheol) is death itself, and Christ destroyed death by death, and brought everlasting life to all mankind.[/quote] I agree fully. And this is the problem I have with Limbo, Christ destroyed the abode of the dead by His death on the cross. For limbo to exist either Christ did not completely destroy death, or a new death was created, or something to that nature. I can not see how Christ could or would leave apart or another abode of the dead in existist when it is said He was victorious over death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesusIsMySuperHero Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1524501' date='May 10 2008, 09:38 PM']Hell (Greek: [i]gehenna[/i]) is not an angel; instead, it is the state of being of those who failed to liken (Greek: [i]omoiosis[/i]) themselves to God through active participation in His uncreated energy.[/quote] I know, I'm going Sola Scriptura here, but hey, that's the foundation of truth I have. [quote]Revelation 20:4-6 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.[/quote] [quote]Revelation 20:14-15 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.[/quote] Something is being cast into the lake of fire. The last time I checked, you could only cast something that had substance, and not a state of being. Or, has all of this happened yet? Has people reigned with Christ for a 1000 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1524517' date='May 10 2008, 10:06 PM']I agree fully. And this is the problem I have with Limbo, Christ destroyed the abode of the dead by His death on the cross. For limbo to exist either Christ did not completely destroy death, or a new death was created, or something to that nature. I can not see how Christ could or would leave apart or another abode of the dead in existist when it is said He was victorious over death.[/quote] KoC, I don't see how that affects the existence of limbo. Limbo is the edge of hell where infants don't suffer the pains of sense but are barred from the beatific vision because they died in a state of original sin. In other words it's not a separate abode. There is a tremendous support for the existence of limbo from Scripture, Magisterial teaching, and the teachings of the Fathers, Doctors, and Theologians. See here for more information: [u][b][url="http://iteadthomam.blogspot.com/2006/05/disputed-question-on-limbo-positive.html"]Disputed questions on Limbo[/url][/b][/u] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted May 11, 2008 Author Share Posted May 11, 2008 “It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.” (Matthew 5:29 there are lots of verses like that. i've never heard of hell being called a mere angel or entity being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesusIsMySuperHero Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1524567' date='May 10 2008, 11:21 PM']“It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.” (Matthew 5:29 there are lots of verses like that. i've never heard of hell being called a mere angel or entity being.[/quote] You have now. The bible says death and hell are enemies of the Christ. The last time I checked the dictionary, enemies are people who have evil intent towards you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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