Traditional Orders Attracting

[DiscerningSoul]

[url="http://www.gloria.tv/?video=j6llmnrayllnz9looxbp"]http://www.gloria.tv/?video=j6llmnrayllnz9looxbp[/url]

The more traditional the order becomes, the more they come.




I for one love the traditional orders.
Enjoy!

Jessica

Edited May 13, 2008 by DiscerningSoul

[Alycin]

[quote name='DiscerningSoul' post='1527416' date='May 13 2008, 05:52 PM'][url="http://www.gloria.tv/?video=j6llmnrayllnz9looxbp"]http://www.gloria.tv/?video=j6llmnrayllnz9looxbp[/url]

The more traditional the order becomes, the more they come.


I for one love the traditional orders.
Enjoy!

Jessica[/quote]

Be careful with your wording...

I am not sure why but for some reason there seems to be an aversion to using the word "traditional" in a positive way. Or so it seems.



YAY for this order.

[Guest profound _inclination]

Beautiful. I wish the Dominicans here in the US would adopt the full habit like these Dominicans have done. It's a personal preference though. I love Dominicans!

[Laudem Gloriae]

These Australian Domincans are outside the church as they are aligned with the Pius X movement.

I am traditional and the word traditional is used by most people - myself and others I know - the have retained the full traditional habit if their order and the traditional, original rules, constitutions and customs of the order.

You can call an order that has badly modified and ditched the habit or changed the original rules, constitutions, charism and customs as "traditional".

There are many cloistered Dominicans in the US with the full length and full traditional Dominican habit: Lockport, Marbury, AL, Buffalo, NY and Menlo Park has all most all of the nuns in the full habit (3-4 are still in the modified) and when I wrote them, they told me that the new comers are thankfully requesting the full habit so perhaps soon they will all be in the same full traditional habit.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='DiscerningSoul' post='1527416' date='May 13 2008, 04:52 PM'][url="http://www.gloria.tv/?video=j6llmnrayllnz9looxbp"]http://www.gloria.tv/?video=j6llmnrayllnz9looxbp[/url]

The more traditional the order becomes, the more they come.


I for one love the traditional orders.
Enjoy!

Jessica[/quote]

wonderful order, but for the purposes of this forum they are aligned with SSPX if I'm not mistaken. So yeah, they're great, but not seen as such by many here.

[cappie]

[quote name='Laudem Gloriae' post='1527495' date='May 14 2008, 08:41 AM']These Australian Dominicans are outside the church as they are aligned with the Pius X movement.[/quote]

These Dominicans are from New Zealand Not Australia.....it's like calling Americans Canadians

[Thomist-in-Training]

Although the SSPX situation is extremely irregular, Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos, the head of the pontifical Ecclesia Dei commission, who is certainly not the Pope but is the Pope's delegate as it were in charge of dealing with the SSPX, repeatedly (not once, but repeatedly) has referred to them as not being outside the Church.

[quote]Q. What timeframe do you foresee for the reconciliation with the Society of Saint Pius X?

"There are positive signs, there is an uninterrupted dialogue. A few days ago I again wrote a new letter to [Bishop] Fellay, Superior of the Society, as a response to one of his previously. In addition to meetings and correspondence, we also speak together by telephone. I consider reconciliation with the Society of Saint Pius X to be viable because, [b] as we have often said at "Ecclesia Dei", this does not concern a true schism but an anomalous situation which developed after the "schismatic action" of Msgr Lefebvre in conferring the episcopate without pontifical mandate, nay rather, against the expressed will of the Pope. [/b] In my heart I have great faith that the Holy Father will be able to mend up the fabric of the Church with the arrival of these brothers in [b]full[/b] communion.[/quote] May 9, 2008. "Jesus" Magazine. "Darío Castrillon Hoyos: Tradition Without Conflict", by Vittoria Prisciandaro. [url="http://wdtprs.com/blog/2008/05/italian-magazine-jesus-interviews-card-castrillon-hoyos-of-the-pc-ecclesia-dei/"]Online in English here.[/url]

Please forgive me if this sounds harsh. It is not meant that way, and I certainly do [b]not [/b]advise anyone outside of [i]very [/i]extreme circumstances and a lot of prayer about it to attend their chapels, and [b]certainly not [/b]to enter religion under their auspices, but I did want to make this comment about their status.

[Mary-Kathryn]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1527423' date='May 13 2008, 06:55 PM']Be careful with your wording...

I am not sure why but for some reason there seems to be an aversion to using the word "traditional" in a positive way. Or so it seems.



YAY for this order.[/quote]

Confused here. What was wrong with Discerning Soul's wording? (trying to figure it out)

[Laudem Gloriae]

Who would want to join any SSPX group who believes that neither JPII or B16 were and are rightful Popes?? To me that is being outside the church! I commend them insofar as that they are traditional in habits, etc. but they err terribly not recognizing that JPII and B16 weren't/aren't Popes and the last one was PX or whatever. That's nuts.

As much as I love, want and will enter a traditional order, I would never enter a SSPX order unless it came into the church.

[irishdancer]

[quote name='cappie' post='1527534' date='May 13 2008, 07:13 PM']These Dominicans are from New Zealand Not Australia.....it's like calling Americans Canadians [/quote]

Thanks Fr. Cappie. Lived in New Zealand for four months and was sure I recognized the accents.

Also while I'm at it, would appreciate being remembered in your prayers the next few months.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Laudem Gloriae' post='1528558' date='May 14 2008, 02:14 PM']Who would want to join any SSPX group who believes that neither JPII or B16 were and are rightful Popes?? To me that is being outside the church! I commend them insofar as that they are traditional in habits, etc. but they err terribly not recognizing that JPII and B16 weren't/aren't Popes and the last one was PX or whatever. That's nuts.

As much as I love, want and will enter a traditional order, I would never enter a SSPX order unless it came into the church.[/quote]

I believe you're thinking of the sedevacantists. We believe that. The SSPX does not. They accept John XXIII-Benedict XVI as true popes. They don't accept all the decisions they've made, but they accept them as real popes.

[dominicansoul]

SSPX confuses me. I heard a story: A van carrying SSPX Dominican sisters broke down. The SSPX-ers decided to walk to the nearest gas station for help. Lo and behold...what do they find? A Roman Catholic Dominican convent just around the corner! They knock on the door, and the Roman Catholic Dominican Superior welcomes them with open arms. They tell her of their situation, and she answers, "You are just in time for Mass! After Mass we will help you." The SSPX-ers look at one another in awkward silence. They tell the Superior..."We can't go to your Mass. It isn't valid." The RC Dominican is absolutely astounded and speechless, doesn't know what to tell them, and just makes her way to the Chapel for Mass. After the Mass, she realizes that the SSPXers have made themselves at home in one of the convent waiting rooms. She decides to do her Dominican thing and invites them to breakfast, anticipating a discussion over their rejection of the Mass. They welcome the invitation, and during breakfast, the conversation turns to the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass. The RC Superior gives them an earful about obedience to the Magisterium and the Pope, does a quick lesson on Vatican II and simply asks where do they get their authority to believe what they believe? These SSPXer's admitted they DO NOT believe that the Pope is a valid Pope and that the Church's truly last Pope was St. Pius X. They told this RC superior that they were very happy to hear Pope Benedict admit that the Latin Mass was never prohibited. And they also told her that they are awaiting the day when the RC's finally do the right thing and bring everything back to traditional splendor before all the modernists Popes took reign and created havoc in the Church. TRUE STORY.

So, I am absolutely confused as to what the SSPX is, what they believe in, and where are they heading??? Perhaps they don't even know! Or perhaps there are sedavacantist SSPX'ers now? They are perhaps splintering into other little groups, creating their own "protestant reformation" of what was Lefebvre's original plan?

Anyhow, I don't find these sisters with their coifs and disobedience too appealing. I think I'll applaud the ones who although coif-less do wear the precious Dominican habit and are multiplying by living the traditional monastic life, their loyalty to the Roman Catholic Church and their obedience to the Pope.

[DiscerningSoul]

SSPX confuses me too.
I just thought the video was cool and them saying the more they become traditional the more the attract.
I never intended to make a debate out it.
I do like the traditional(in union) convents and have felt very drawn to them.

[dominicansoul]

I apologize...for trying to debate! i wasn't arguing or anything, just trying to give my two cents....

[the lords sheep]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1528746' date='May 14 2008, 06:51 PM']Anyhow, I don't find these sisters with their coifs and disobedience too appealing. I think I'll applaud the ones who although coif-less do wear the precious Dominican habit and are multiplying by living the traditional monastic life, their loyalty to the Roman Catholic Church and their obedience to the Pope.[/quote]

Hear Hear!!

I normally don't take an opinion on these things, but I often feel as if those who wear a habit without the whimple or a veil that shows some hair are seen as lesser than, despite their fidelity to the magesterium and their evident holiness.

That said, I'd also rather enter an order that wore a modified habit or no habit at all than enter one that wore a beautiful full habit but had weak formation or worse, are not faithful to the Holy Father and the Holy Roman Catholic Church. To do otherwise would be to focus on the superficialities, which would make my own vocation seem very shallow.

Just my thoughts.
In Jesus and Mary,
Lauren

[the lords sheep]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1528894' date='May 14 2008, 08:47 PM']I apologize...for trying to debate! i wasn't arguing or anything, just trying to give my two cents....
[/quote]


I think there's a difference between discussion and trying to understand one another, or even voicing opinions that debating. We are all adults, and we can have a discussion without being biting.

In Jesus and Mary,
Lauren

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1528746' date='May 14 2008, 05:51 PM']SSPX confuses me. I heard a story: A van carrying SSPX Dominican sisters broke down. The SSPX-ers decided to walk to the nearest gas station for help. Lo and behold...what do they find? A Roman Catholic Dominican convent just around the corner! They knock on the door, and the Roman Catholic Dominican Superior welcomes them with open arms. They tell her of their situation, and she answers, "You are just in time for Mass! After Mass we will help you." The SSPX-ers look at one another in awkward silence. They tell the Superior..."We can't go to your Mass. It isn't valid." The RC Dominican is absolutely astounded and speechless, doesn't know what to tell them, and just makes her way to the Chapel for Mass. After the Mass, she realizes that the SSPXers have made themselves at home in one of the convent waiting rooms. She decides to do her Dominican thing and invites them to breakfast, anticipating a discussion over their rejection of the Mass. They welcome the invitation, and during breakfast, the conversation turns to the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass. The RC Superior gives them an earful about obedience to the Magisterium and the Pope, does a quick lesson on Vatican II and simply asks where do they get their authority to believe what they believe? These SSPXer's admitted they DO NOT believe that the Pope is a valid Pope and that the Church's truly last Pope was St. Pius X. They told this RC superior that they were very happy to hear Pope Benedict admit that the Latin Mass was never prohibited. And they also told her that they are awaiting the day when the RC's finally do the right thing and bring everything back to traditional splendor before all the modernists Popes took reign and created havoc in the Church. TRUE STORY.[/quote]

Maybe a true story, but if so then they are not adhering to the philosophy of the SSPX, nor any Traditional Catholic because no such group/person I have EVER heard of would dare say that Pius X was our last pope. There are some jokes about "out-tradding" the trads and going back to a Greek or Aramaic ordinary mass, but they are only jokes.


[quote]So, I am absolutely confused as to what the SSPX is, what they believe in, and where are they heading???[/quote]

They have a website with most of this info.

[quote]Perhaps they don't even know! Or perhaps there are sedavacantist SSPX'ers now? They are perhaps splintering into other little groups, creating their own "protestant reformation" of what was Lefebvre's original plan?[/quote]

There certainly are certain individual priests/religious who have become sedevacantists. Lefebvre himself nearly became one and many (myself included) believe he would have been had he lived a few more years. There is a rift in the group, but the SSPX philosophy is that John XXIII-Benedict XVI were and are valid popes. Bishop Fellay the leader of the SSPX has made this very clear. He wouldn't be exploring opportunities for reconciliation if he didn't believe and propose this. Whether or not the SSPX ultimately breaks up into different groups time will only tell. I can tell you for a fact that if and when a reconciliation with Rome comes, there will be a rift in the group and many will not join in the reconciliation.

[quote]Anyhow, I don't find these sisters with their coifs and disobedience too appealing. I think I'll applaud the ones who although coif-less do wear the precious Dominican habit and are multiplying by living the traditional monastic life, their loyalty to the Roman Catholic Church and their obedience to the Pope.[/quote]

To each his own . You're obedience is to be applauded as well. peace.

[goldenchild17]

I will cut to the chase before mods come in . Yes, this group is a part of the SSPX. Yes they are in schism with Rome. Yes (I believe) links like the one in the initial post are not permitted here. There is big debate about this group and there are other appropriate forums in which to discuss the issues. Phatmass is not one of them.

mods, how'd I do?

peace

[Thomist-in-Training]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1528746' date='May 14 2008, 06:51 PM']SSPX confuses me. I heard a story:
... [snip]
"We can't go to your Mass. It isn't valid."
... [snip]
These SSPXer's admitted they DO NOT believe that the Pope is a valid Pope and that the Church's truly last Pope was St. Pius X. They told this RC superior that they were very happy to hear Pope Benedict admit that the Latin Mass was never prohibited. And they also told her that they are awaiting the day when the RC's finally do the right thing and bring everything back to traditional splendor before all the modernists Popes took reign and created havoc in the Church. TRUE STORY.

So, I am absolutely confused as to what the SSPX is, what they believe in, and where are they heading??? Perhaps they don't even know! Or perhaps there are sedavacantist SSPX'ers now?[/quote]

When you post a story like this, about serious matters, could you please also post the sources from which you heard it, and times and places and the names of the two communities, if you know them? This sort of thing is [b]important[/b], so that people can believe you when you assure us that it is a true story, and since the stances you mention in the story are not the official stance of the SSPX.

As far as I know, their official stance is "The Novus Ordo can be said validly. It should never be said, and perhaps never attended, but in certain circumstances it can be said validly;" and then as GoldenChild explained about the Popes.

[dominicansoul]

I heard it from a Dominican Community here in the states, but I wish to protect their identity. So, you can believe me or not. But that is where I heard it from the Mother Superior of a Roman Catholic Dominican Community here in the States. The SSPX Dominicans, I have no idea their name or their province. I hardly believe this Superior would make this stuff up. It does seem the SSPX has splintered. This doesn't suprise me. If the foundation is disobedience, what is expected from the members? Apparently some SSPX'ers have become sedavacantists.

Edited May 15, 2008 by dominicansoul