Are You Obligated To Follow Your Spiritual Director?

[Marieteresa]

Just wondering if you are obligated to follow his advice and if anyone has had to follow some painful advice that was given to you by your spiritual director. Thanks

[Nunsense]

This is a complex issue. It would depend on the relationship you have with your SD and what the advice is. Of course, no one is obligated to follow advice that is illegal or sinful or contrary to Church teaching. On the other hand, if one is trying to learn obedience, then attention to the advice of a SD is important.

Personally, if the issue was important enough to disagree, then I would tell my SD that I wanted to talk to another priest because of the conflict I felt. If your relationship isn't open enough to talk about this with your SD, perhaps the SD is not the right one for you?

Edited May 28, 2008 by nunsense

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1545491' date='May 27 2008, 09:34 PM']This is a complex issue. It would depend on the relationship you have with your SD and what the advice is. Of course, no one is obligated to follow advice that is illegal or sinful or contrary to Church teaching. On the other hand, if one is trying to learn obedience, then attention to the advice of a SD is important.

Personally, if the issue was important enough to disagree, then I would tell my SD that I wanted to talk to another priest because of the conflict I felt. If your relationship isn't open enough to talk about this with your SD, perhaps the SD is not the right one for you?[/quote]

Agreed.

I would say, in general, that it is important to be obedient to your spiritual director. You are entrusting a good part of your spiritual life into his hands, you need to be able to trust him. Sometimes what he says may not be easy to follow. For example, Edith Stein's spiritual director kept her from entering Carmel for many years, only finally allowing her to enter once Nazi take-over had cost her her job. My own spiritual director has instructed me to wait three years before seriously discerning with any particular community. Spiritual directors are there to guide you, teach you obedience, and always have the well-being of your soul and spiritual life in hand.

If you feel some advice or direction is a point of major disagreement, I would bring it up with your spiritual director. That's something the two of you definitely need to talk about it some more, then. Take it to prayer.

On lighter note, I once ran into my spiritual director when I was sick and in front of a large group of friends he looked me sternly in the eye and said: "Get better! That's under holy obedience!" Then chuckled and walked off. I just shook my head and said, "Oh Monsignor..."

[ThyWillBeDone]

I think TeresaBenedicta and nunsense have both given great advice. I just wanted to add that you should pray about why you disagree with your spiritual director. I can remember times I disagreed with mine only to realize in in prayer that I disagree manly because I did not want to admit he was right and I was wrong, or because what he was asking was a real challenge.

On a complete side not, any of you either read The Brother's Karamozov by Dostoevsky. In it one of the main characters is a monk (Orthodox). Even before he enters his spiritual director is a monk to whom he is under obedience. They had a system with what they called Elders and the young monks, or men discerning placed themselves under complete obedience, they would do anything their elder told them. At times I think that system would be so much easier. If I had some holy saintly monk who told me exactly what to do. Anyway that is my random thought.

P.S. Read Dostoevsky he is not Catholic but his books (particularly Brother's Karamazov and Crime and Punishment) are full of orthodox theology, I mean that in both it sense, Russian Orthodox and theologically in line with Catholic teaching (for the most part)

[FSM Sister]

Jesus loves obedience! I would obey him if at all possible. If it is just not possible, then tell him why you feel you cannot obey. You may be giving up an opportunity to grow in grace by obeying something that is either difficult, unpleasant, or both. You do have to keep in mind that your spiritual director will only know what you've revealed to him. The more open and honest you are, the easier it is for him to direct you well.

St. Margaret Mary's spiritual director told her to take more vegetable soup when she first revealed her visions of the Sacred Heart. He, too, became a canonized saint. He was not wrong to test her vocation and her visions. He was just doing his job!

[Marieteresa]

On a side note, I heard that if your a religious in certain communities one most follow their spiritual directors advice (not sure if this falls under obedience) Anyone else heard this?

[Totus Tuus]

nm

Edited May 28, 2008 by Totus Tuus

[CatherineM]

I disagree with my spiritual director all the time. It's usually about something that is good for me, but that I don't want to do. The biggest fight has been about RCIA. I want to quit, and she doesn't want me to, because she thinks it's good for me. I've been doing RCIA for over 20 years, and have never wanted to quit before. This church's program just drives me crazy. We were fighting about it just last night.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1546005' date='May 28 2008, 06:56 AM']I disagree with my spiritual director all the time. It's usually about something that is good for me, but that I don't want to do. The biggest fight has been about RCIA. I want to quit, and she doesn't want me to, because she thinks it's good for me. I've been doing RCIA for over 20 years, and have never wanted to quit before. This church's program just drives me crazy. We were fighting about it just last night.[/quote]

So are you saying that because you fight with your spiritual director it is ok to disobey one's spiritual director? I'm sorry, I didn't catch the conclusion (if any) in answer to this thread's question.

[CatherineM]

I disagree with her about a good many things. Most of the time I yield to her experience and wisdom. Sometimes I don't. When I don't sometimes I discover she was right, sometimes I discover that I was right. Sometimes it's not that clear. I don't think you have to obey them unless you are under their authority. If my pastor or bishop ordered me to do something, I would do so even if greatly conflicted. I'm not under the authority of my spiritual adviser. She is a friend, mentor, and sometimes devil's advocate, but I am free to choose my own path.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

This is a difficult question. In general, I think that you should follow your spiritual director's guidance even when it's hard to take - after all, he or she will have a great deal of experience and knowledge that you have not yet attained, and will never attain unless you find the courage and the humility of heart to accept that your personal inclinations and the way you've always done things may not be right all (or even most) of the time.

However, sometimes people choose spiritual directors who are ill qualified for the role and who try to exert their authority in the wrong areas and for all the wrong reasons. I have a friend who chose quite a famous priest for her spiritual director for no other reason than she'd heard his name mentioned a lot. He also had a reputation for 'straight talking'. Unfortunately, I think that his (minor) celebrity status must have gone to his head, as on their first meeting he told her to give up the prestigious Oxford PhD placement that she'd just been offered and concentrate on 'serious discernment' in a monastery or convent. This advice came in response to her tentative, "I think I might have a vocation to religious life, but I don't know much about it and I'm not really sure." Luckily, she took advice from her parish priest as well, who strongly disapproved of the advice given.

She is now a postulant with a community that she came into contact with when she was doing her PhD at Oxford, and whom she might never have met had she followed her spiritual director's rather hasty judgement. He didn't know her well enough to advise her to take such a dramatic step - a forty-minute meeting with somebody is hardly enough for you to start telling them what to do with their life. However, I would hope that situations like this one are rare.

[Chiquitunga]

Here's something on Therese Ivers' (currently studying Canon Law in Rome) blog that touches on this. She is really very knowledgeable and experienced on this topic of discerning a vocation and everything.

[quote]3rd Mistake Letting The Spiritual Director Make All The Decisions


A spiritual director's role is assist a person in discerning the will of God. Usually the spiritual director's advice should be followed although there is a time and a place for raising possible objections to some advice that is offered. When it comes to discerning a vocation, or even making other decisions, it can be tempting for a person to just leave it up to a spiritual director to make the final decision. Such a practice, however, can be gravely injurious to the welfare of the discerner and is unfair to the director.


Generally speaking, only a mature person should attempt to discern his vocation. If a person is mature (age is only a slight factor in the degree of maturity in today's world), God expects such a person to take personal responsibility for his actions. This includes deciding what path in life to take after careful consideration and prayer.


A spiritual director should be able to help point out what God may be calling the directee to, but since the spiritual director is not the directee, the spiritual director has no way of knowing the inmost heart of the directee. This is why any vocational advice should be seen in the light of advice and not in the light of it being totally God's will simply because it comes from the lips of the director.[/quote]
[url="http://doihaveavocation.com/blog/archives/78"]http://doihaveavocation.com/blog/archives/78[/url]

Edited May 29, 2008 by Margaret Clare

[EJames2]

[quote name='Marieteresa' post='1545372' date='May 27 2008, 05:49 PM']Just wondering if you are obligated to follow his advice and if anyone has had to follow some painful advice that was given to you by your spiritual director. Thanks[/quote]
YES

[Saint Therese]

Saint Teresa said that if something were a sin and you were ordered to do by a superior, it would still be a sin. So obviously if your sd advises you to do something sinful, you shouldn't obey. I think I would not obey if I were advised to something that was clearly imprudent.

[alicemary]

A spiritual director/directress is merely a guide. I do not know why people use the word 'obey'? I think that might not be a good choice of words. I guess I have been fortunate to have found some wonderful people in my journey. They have offered wonderful advice and a shoulder to cry on. You should not feel obligated to do anything...this relationship is freely chosen. If you find you don't come to a meeting of the minds, then by all means, move on. Not that everything they say is in complete agreement with me, growth is never easy. There has to be some shared caring on both sides

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='alicemary' post='1548747' date='May 29 2008, 11:39 PM']A spiritual director/directress is merely a guide. I do not know why people use the word 'obey'? I think that might not be a good choice of words. I guess I have been fortunate to have found some wonderful people in my journey. They have offered wonderful advice and a shoulder to cry on. You should not feel obligated to do anything...this relationship is freely chosen. If you find you don't come to a meeting of the minds, then by all means, move on. Not that everything they say is in complete agreement with me, growth is never easy. There has to be some shared caring on both sides[/quote]

I don't know if [i]merely a guide[/i] is the best descriptor; although, for some people, that's all they may see their spiritual director as.

But, a spiritual [b]director[/b] does just that: directs. I think obedience follows from direction, don't you? I mean, it's obviously not a necessity, otherwise the word command would be used. But, I would liken it to an orchestra or a band: the director directs the musicians. They can choose whether or not they will follow his directing. I can almost guarantee, though, that if he's a good and competent director, the music will sound the best and most in sync if they are following him.

And that's the key: good and competent.

Make sure your spiritual director is knowledgeable at what he does. Make sure he's holy and that he truly loves God. Make sure he's good and competent. And most of all: make sure he's the right fit for you. Both of you should be taking all of this to prayer when you first begin direction.

If the shoe fits, so to speak, then you absolutely do need to be obedient to whatever he directs you in, so long as it is not sin. It's not only trust in your director, but trust in God, who has put you in your director's hand. Often times the best things for us are not those that we want for ourselves. St. Elizabeth of Hungary wanted to sell everything she owned and join a convent: her spiritual director would hear nothing of it. He directed her to do all sorts of things that she did not want to do. And she submitted to him.

From obedience flows many virtues. Unfortunately, nowadays, it's not often something that people seek out.

[Marieteresa]

my spiritual director is a good and holy priest, so being competent is not an issue....perhaps it is my own will or rather not wanting to do what he asks because its painful. Nevertheless, I was told that depending on which community you enter if you have a spiritual director you must follow the advice given to you. Perhaps this experience will be helpful in preparing me for life in a community to which I must follow my spiritual director.

Edited May 31, 2008 by Marieteresa

[Sister_Laurel]

Spiritual directors today tend to reject the notion that they "direct" others. They don't. They accompany and guide and help a person maintain a God-focused direction in their lives, but they don't direct. This is the main reason SD's today will call themselves accompanists or guides, for instance. Obedience has a couple of meanings, the most foundational being to hearken, that is, to be attentive (listen) and responsive to someone or something. One listens and listens deeply if one is obedient. Only secondarily, and to a much lesser degree is obedience bound up with "doing what one is told".

As a consecrated hermit I have both superiors and a spiritual director. I owe my superiors a somewhat different kind of obedience than I do my SD. I listen to both of course, and I pray about whatever they say, request, or suggest is important. However, my SD does NOT tell me what to do and I do not owe her obedience in this sense of the term. A legitimate superior sometimes does actually tell me what to do in a certain situation. Because she is experienced in the ways of a vow of religious obedience herself, and because she knows me well and knows what is best for me and my vocation, and because I am similarly vowed, she is able to exercise what is called today, the ministry of authority in my regard. She can require me to do x or y. But let me point out that it is actually very rare that a legitimate superior exercises her authority in this way.

Still, this is not a form of authority a spiritual director as SD has. Neither does a directee owe the director this kind of obedience. There is something seductive about owing another person "obedience" in this sense. I continue to be surprised that folks seem to want to give a spiritual director such authority (I'm less surprised some untrained directors want to take it!). Still, as someone who does spiritual direction (accompaniment) myself, I recognize this tendency is very real and to be avoided except by those who have been formally called to (and prepared for) a vow of religious obedience and/or to exercising the ministry of authority as a legitimate superior. The reason is significant: when one is not vowed in this way or prepared to assume this leadership role, simply doing what a director tells one can be infantilizing. For the director, requiring or commanding obedience in this sense can be a shortcut to actually listening to the directee or loving them sufficiently to empower their independence; it also can stem from pride (arrogance) and a misplaced sense of power or authority.

[GraceUk]

Would you be obliged to tell the a spiritual director that you wouldn't be following this advice and why. I think you would or else it would be  a waste of everyone's time.  But isn't the idea to guide you towards your goal and explore maybe exactly what your goal is. Not that I know that much about it

[Sister_Laurel]

I don't know if obliged is the word I would use. I would certainly share how I had discerned in the situation and the decision I made. I expect directees to do the same with me. I don't see how this would be a waste of anyone's time since it furthers the aim of spiritual direction, namely, to accompany a directee in their growth, and to assist them in negotiating the decisions they must make in their journey with, in, and towards God. Since the client's ongoing moral and spiritual development and growth in virtue is the very purpose of spiritual direction, and since the capacity to make informed and mature choices or decisions is something SD fosters as part of that growth, no one's time is wasted at all. All of this assists a directee/client in attending to life goals and direction. Of course, if the model of SD one is using sees the director as a superior who  commands obedience in the narrower sense of "doing what one is told to do", then a client simply not doing what they are told will also tend to cause SD to be seen as a waste of time. All my best, Sister Laurel.

Edited May 6, 2024 by Sister_Laurel