George Bush Vs. Hitler

[CatherineM]

As to military spending, I'm not an economist, but I've got a 58 year old brother who works 15 hours a day 6 days a week on a military contract. He's in charge of body shop of the largest Kenworth truck facility in the nation, and they have the Halliburton contract to ready trucks for Iraq and China. They have to put snorkles on the trucks for China because they often have to ford streams, and they put extra dust (the ultra-handsome) filters on the engines going to Iraq. I'm sure there's more involved in fixing the trucks than just that, but that's the first thing he mentioned. That facility stays open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. In just his section, has 10 guys working the same hours under him. So I guess the war has been good for his economy. He can't even take a vacation.

[Deb]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1548187' date='May 29 2008, 11:33 AM']I think he honestly does care about people. He also cares about the environment despite what people say...his actions (his ranch) prove far more to me than any law he passed.



Umm about those taxes. It wasn't just his buddies but alot of mid-sized business owners. If you owned a decent sized grocery store which did, lets say, 200,000 in business each year (not uncommon) you'd have to report that 200,000 as PERSONAL income. Even though you have 10 employees and handle thousands of dollars of merchandise a day. I studied this thoroughly in Economics with prof's who weren't Bush fans in the slightest.

And about destroying our economy with the war....well...you don't know just how much military spending is actually being done...and that spending is on parts made in your backyard without you realizing it. Sure there are big airline names like Lockeed and Boing, but they get their parts from tiny shops in california, penn, ri, ct, texas, ad nasium all making their (very good) living off of that.




Agreed. Although, I think that with the leglislation their blood is not on his hands alone.




Again...responsible? I don't thing Bush owes God anything...he did his best with the information he's given. I'm sure that Bush will atone and grieve for the men and women lost...but I don't think its necessarily his fault.




Bush has done all he possibly could with the house and senatate the way it is. He's saved millions, or atleast thousands, when it comes to abortion. He's made the best headway BACK to the way things should be since RVW[/quote]

I would question the Profs who were giving you your information. In a small business, you may deduct any ordinary, reasonable expense that helps you earn business income. That certainly extends to payroll, insurance payments, mileage reimbursement, advertising etc. I would definitely switch schools if I were you if that is the information you were given.

As far as destroying our economy with the war, yes, we are. We have already spent 522 billion dollars and most likely will hit 160 billion this year alone. A conservative estimate is that this war will ultimately cost us over 3 TRILLION dollars when we get done paying for veteran's medical benefits, disability benefits, reequpping the military etc. Yes, military contractors are making a fortune charging five times what anything is worth. Haliburton and Mercenary companies etc are getting filthy rich and there is minimum accountabilty. The war has reduced oil output world wide which has led to the major hike we are seeing in oil prices. That took money out of hands like mine and put it into the pockets of a handful of oil producers. They are laughing their way to the bank. War is always profitable for a few. In our country, they are certainly the ones who pushed for the war. Cheney and his ties to Haliburton and to oil are the reason we are there. Not because we felt some overriding threat was coming from Iraq.
I do blame congress for letting this President take us into an unjust and wasteful war and they should all be held accountable. By the way, the make up of Congress that allowed this President to start a war was a majority Republican in both the house and the Senate.

Bush did the best with the info he was given? So, we have a President who is given massive amounts of false information and he should not be held accountable for passing it on? This is what happens when we have someone who is so unqualified for any office, much less the President of the United States.
When he discovers it was all false, did he fire any of those people? No, he has never even admitted one single thing he has done as having been a mistake. This is someone who is so prideful and scornful of the rest of his country that yeah, he will have to live with what he has done.
To put that in perspective: 4084 U.S. soldiers killed. 30,000 wounded. Minimum Iraqi's killed, 49,000 with 42,000 of them civilians. (Iraqi numbers by news reports, U.S. does not bother to keep those figures. I guess they are just Iraqi's.)
Now, in my opinion. These lives were worth more than someones profit. More than someones ego. More than someones vendetta.

Bush has done the best for his friends and relatives. He had six years of Republican control and if this is the best he can do? Please. Just admit he is the worst President that has ever lived and get it over with. I don't care what party he is with. He has been a disaster for his country.

[img]http://proggiemuslima.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/mission-accomplished.jpg[/img]

[Deb]

I think McClellon should be tried for treason.

In "What Happened," Scott McClellan offers withering portraits of George Bush and Karl Rove, confirms we went to war in Iraq under false pretenses, and that we were serially lied to about the outing of Valerie Plame. Interesting stuff, Scott. But about five years too late. How many times are we going to have a key Bush administration official try to wash the blood off his hands -- and add a chunk of change to his bank account -- by writing a come-clean book years after the fact instead of when it actually could have made a difference? Huffington

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote]I would question the Profs who were giving you your information. In a small business, you may deduct any ordinary, reasonable expense that helps you earn business income. That certainly extends to payroll, insurance payments, mileage reimbursement, advertising etc. I would definitely switch schools if I were you if that is the information you were given[/quote]

Ummm....well swithing schools wouldn't do much good becuase my professors have worked in both top US economic positions and World Economic boards. I have profs from Somalia, Russia, Europe, America (of course), Canada, China/Vietnam. All hold honors within their countries, most have worked on international trade and economic boards. If they don't know, then no one would know.

Yes, you can have deductions...but those hardly make a difference. Its like an ordinary person deducting for milage and such...gas is now $4 a gallon but the comp rate for 25 miles of travel is around $3.50. If you drive anything bigger than a small car you're not going to be able to really claim that money.

The big chunk of money that the tax break encompassed saved many business owners. A few CEO's and other executives got their way into the package but it was a fair think to do. Taxes are THEIR MONEY they pay to the government. They pay a larger percent on what they make. You don't hear anyone hollering becuase they raised the tax bracket for 10% tax from 31k to 32.5k, do you? No, becuase thats not alot of money to the government...but when you're talking reducing a tax rate from 25% to 22% of a quarter mil. that gets people's attention. Just becuase they were taxed before dosn't make taxing them now fair.

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote]Now, in my opinion. These lives were worth more than someones profit. More than someones ego. More than someones vendetta.[/quote]

I question this as I just got done an American History class. American tends towards isolationism. However, if we hadn't been so isolationist after WWI we'd of never had WWII.

Their were tortured people, rapes and murders going on in Iraq without us noticing before the war. I have friends and family in Iraq. I know the fear, the sadness and the worry. However, each and every one of them wants to serve because they see the difference between life in America and life in a country such as Iraq.

There are places where conditions are even worse. But we picked Iraq. We need to be there. All and all, the death toll is no where near past wars. It dosn't make it right, it dosn't make it okay, but for heaven's sake things are getting better despite NBC's reports.

America DOES have a responsibility to the rest of the world since we hold the most wealth. And if that means time, people and money so be it.

[Galloglasses]

Why do people assume Bush is unintelligent because he is unarticulate?

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1548310' date='May 29 2008, 02:42 PM']Why do people assume Bush is unintelligent because he is unarticulate?[/quote]

Becuase they watch CNN and NBC for information

[praying4carmel]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1547158' date='May 28 2008, 10:21 PM']Please don't take personal offense at what I'm going to say, but this is a pretty sensitive subject to me and I feel I need speak frankly.

I absolutely have no idea how people can so easily make comparison between Adolf Hitler and George Bush or Hilary Clinton or any other spoof that people do to "make a point." I'm sorry, but what Hitler did in Nazi Germany has absolutely NO COMPARISON whatsoever to any of these spoofs, much less George Bush. I don't care whether or not you agree with the war in Iraq or any of his other policies. It doesn't matter. It is nothing to the torture and murder of over 6 million PEOPLE. Do you think it funny or amusing or something to be taken lightly? It's one of the worst evils that this world has ever seen. And yet, people think so little of it that they are willing to compare that horrific time in history to now? I can't even begin to express how much that angers me. Have we already forgotten how horrible Hitler's reign was? Are we truly that naive? To make such a comparison is disrespectful, rude, insensitive, and in my opinion just plain out-landish.[/quote]

I am in full agreement with you teresabenedicta..as your namesake was gassed by Hitler and we lost one of the most brilliant woman philosophers and then theologians the world has known..Rosemary Ruether or Elizabeth Schussler-Fiorenza et al just wish they had the brain Power of Edith Stein...

But I digress..

There are some aspects of what is happening in the USA that frighten me..However, George Bush is Not close to Hitler, and it is [color="#FF0000"]offensive[/color] to compare him. Pol Pot, or Mao Zedong Would be a better Comparison to Hitler. But George Bush NO. As Much as I dislike the Man, and Look forward to Him being GONE..I would never compare him to Hitler.

You are absolutely right to be offended IMHO.

[Deb]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1548294' date='May 29 2008, 01:34 PM']Ummm....well swithing schools wouldn't do much good becuase my professors have worked in both top US economic positions and World Economic boards. I have profs from Somalia, Russia, Europe, America (of course), Canada, China/Vietnam. All hold honors within their countries, most have worked on international trade and economic boards. If they don't know, then no one would know.

Yes, you can have deductions...but those hardly make a difference. Its like an ordinary person deducting for milage and such...gas is now $4 a gallon but the comp rate for 25 miles of travel is around $3.50. If you drive anything bigger than a small car you're not going to be able to really claim that money.

The big chunk of money that the tax break encompassed saved many business owners. A few CEO's and other executives got their way into the package but it was a fair think to do. Taxes are THEIR MONEY they pay to the government. They pay a larger percent on what they make. You don't hear anyone hollering becuase they raised the tax bracket for 10% tax from 31k to 32.5k, do you? No, becuase thats not alot of money to the government...but when you're talking reducing a tax rate from 25% to 22% of a quarter mil. that gets people's attention. Just becuase they were taxed before dosn't make taxing them now fair.[/quote]

I would check the credentials of your professors. I always question those who all hold honors in their countries and end up teaching. Yep. Don't believe everything you hear in a classroom either. Research it yourself. Everyone has an agenda.

I do believe you said that if a business brought in $200,000 in income, it was all counted as personal income. That is false. Most of your argument doesn't state anything other than your opinion. Let's have some facts. It is true that small business owners pay more in taxes than large corporations. They cannot afford high priced accountants to work out their tax avoidance strategies.
In the year 2000 (according to our own GAO) 93.9% of U.S. Corporations paid less than 5% of their income in taxes. Now, I do my taxes and I can tell you that I pay a lot more than that.
The corporate tax rate for companies earning 10-15 million a year is 35%.
The individual tax rate for a single person earning over $103,000 is 35%. Who do you think gets the most in deductions? So, what is wrong with this picture? Many companies pay no taxes at all. Right now, corporations have the second lowest tax rate since 1934.

Chevron is taking in 5 million dollars in profit a day in 2008. THAT IS A DAY! I would love to see what their tax breaks are. Oh, yeah, that is right, they have to put that money away because they are being sued for shooting and killing people in third world countries as they get their tax breaks to smell of elderberries the resources out of some other ignorant country.

The reality is that the working class pay most of the taxes in this country which allows corporate CEO's to get paid ridiculous salaries. If a company can write off its payroll, why not pay those guys a fortune. They wouldn't think of doing that for the guy who is actually busting their butt doing the grunt work though.

You really might want to think about taking another economics class.

[CatherineM]

If the income from my husband's small business was all counted as personal income, we'd have to close the business. Expenses to run the business can run 80-90%. Those ordinary costs of doing business are always completely deductible off the top. My tax law class in law school was in 1985, so I suppose that has changed since then, but I doubt it.

[Deb]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1548305' date='May 29 2008, 01:39 PM']I question this as I just got done an American History class. American tends towards isolationism. However, if we hadn't been so isolationist after WWI we'd of never had WWII.

Their were tortured people, rapes and murders going on in Iraq without us noticing before the war. I have friends and family in Iraq. I know the fear, the sadness and the worry. However, each and every one of them wants to serve because they see the difference between life in America and life in a country such as Iraq.

There are places where conditions are even worse. But we picked Iraq. We need to be there. All and all, the death toll is no where near past wars. It dosn't make it right, it dosn't make it okay, but for heaven's sake things are getting better despite NBC's reports.

America DOES have a responsibility to the rest of the world since we hold the most wealth. And if that means time, people and money so be it.[/quote]

Wow. You took another class. I am happy for you. At least it has you questioning things. So, forget the history of WWI and WWII and focus on the here and now.

Hmm, some people were tortured, raped and killed in Iraq without us noticing. No, we noticed. Although, we were the ones who built up Sadaam in the first place so we really couldn't jump him right away, not until at least he turned on us.

So, there are places where conditions are even worse but, we picked Iraq and we need to be there. Time to grow up. I hate (don't hate, appreciate) to be the one to have to help you in that.
Have you heard of the DRC? The Congo? Between 1998 and 2004, 3.8 MILLION people died from starvation and disease due to the civil war there. Did you hear anyone mention us going in there and rescuing them? We knew about that.
How about Columbia? That civil war has been going on for 38 years. We only get our cocaine from them so, no reason to jump in there. Maybe only 114,000 killed. We have given them 1.3 billion dollars which does not seem to have done anything. We certainly know about them.
How about Darfur. Now, Bush himself has even referred to what is going on there as genocide but, hmmm, nope, didn't pick that country. Can't help but knowing about them. That country has had 200,000 killed because of who they are and 2.5 MILLION people are now refugees because they had to run or die. Genocide in action as we stand back and watch them die.

Now, can you give me a good reason why we "picked" Iraq. By the way. We did not have to pick anyplace to show our might. We do not start wars just "cuz." We actually had a valid reason to go into Afghanistan and we turned around and walked away. We had a valid reason to go into Saudi Arabia,as most of the terrorists were from there. We didn't. We had no VALID reason to attack Iraq. Note the use of the word valid.

We do not get involved in wars because of humanitarian reasons anymore. Please. We only do it if we can get something out of it. Now, what would Iraq have that the other much, much, much worse off countries don't have for us? The possibility of getting our hands on their oil and our military bases on their soil. You don't really think the U.S. is going to stop with Iraq do you?

Please explain to me what your history class taught you as to declaring war for no reason? For declaring war based on lies? To declaring war just because you want to?
We have a responsibility to the world. Yes we do. To be a country that can be admired for what it stands for. We threw that out the window when we went in to Iraq. Did you notice we didn't get a lot of help there and we still aren't.

Surely you took another class that will help you respond to my points?
I don't understand your reference to NBC because I do not watch televison. I prefer to get my news from sources not in the United States if possible. We have not had an unbiased or free press for a very long time.