Wearing Veils

[the lords sheep]

[quote name='EWIE' post='1564952' date='Jun 9 2008, 09:40 PM']I wish to register [b]STRONG OBJECTIONS[/b][u][/u] to the inuendos implied with the use of the phrases,
butch, twisted, other disorder of sexuality, fairy-like, rainbow stickers etc. etc.
Unless the writer of the message has the education to warrant the authority to post his [b]opinion[/b] as fact, then it should be noted that this is in fact only his [b]OPINION[/b]. And even if he has such authority, it is not loving to use such derogatory adjectives regarding our brothers and sisters, nor is this, in my understanding, the appropriate place to be voicing such predjudice.[/quote]

I am in agreement with EWIE. While in some ways I have similarly observed/experienced many of these tendencies, I firmly believe that we have to show some mercy to those who really struggle with these things. For many women (not all) they do not know what it means to be feminine, to accept their sexuality as it is and accept themselves as they are. Rather, they've bought the poison that's broadcast all over the media: to be feminine is to be weak, unless of course by feminine you mean scantily clad, and then to be promiscuous and flaunt your sexuality is the fullest extent of sexuality. (I can't speak as easily to the experience of men, because, well, I'm not one...)
But the way to reach out to those who are struggling with actualizing their sexuality to its fullest extent (both male and female), is not to throw around condemnatory words, but to 1. live as an example and 2. gently challenge them to live differently, view themselves differently, view the world differently. It's all wrapped up together. A woman who can find no self-worth in herself will seek it through the affirmations of others/the culture; this is equally true for a man. The manifestations are different, but the sickness is the same.
I am very saddened to see something as beautiful as the John Paul the Great's message in Theology of the Body, Mulieris Dignitatem, and other works be twisted into condemnatory and biting words against those who he was reaching out to.

In Jesus and Mary,
Lauren

[the lords sheep]

On another note, I am utterly fascinated with this topic. It's frankly never even crossed my mind to wear a veil to Mass/Adoration. I've never known anyone to do it but postulants in religious orders....
Does anyone know of any good documents/references that I can read that especially talk about the theology behind the veil?
Thanks,
Lauren

[DiscerningSoul]

[quote name='the lords sheep' post='1566454' date='Jun 10 2008, 08:44 AM']On another note, I am utterly fascinated with this topic. It's frankly never even crossed my mind to wear a veil to Mass/Adoration. I've never known anyone to do it but postulants in religious orders....
Does anyone know of any good documents/references that I can read that especially talk about the theology behind the veil?
Thanks,
Lauren[/quote]

Trust me I am a real tom boy, I was climbing trees rather then playing with dolls. Wearing pants feels more comfortable then a skirt.
However, I am willing to give up being comfortable for Mass, if it means honoring our faith, Jesus and Mary and to save souls.

Lauren have you seen my post with all the links on it?

Anyway, Like I said before, I am going to veil and wear a skirt for Mass. YES, I DO LOVE THE MASS!!! YELL it out to the rooftops! I LOVE MASS!

[Deus te Amat]

[quote name='DiscerningSoul' post='1566672' date='Jun 10 2008, 01:08 PM']YES, I DO LOVE THE MASS!!! YELL it out to the rooftops! I LOVE MASS! [/quote]




I like you.

Can I yell too?

I LOVE MASS!!!

Feels pretty good.

[Maria_Faustina]

Yay! Can I love Mass too? --I love the Mass! <3 times like 3,000.

Discerning Soul, I'm glad to hear you plan to wear a skirt and veil to Mass from now on! After this Sunday I decided that I think I want to veil every time I go to Mass/Adoration too. Adoration isn't as hard because there aren't as many people, but Mass will be a challenge for a while.. I just don't understand why people give me weird looks. But like I said, the teenage girl/long skirt/modest top/mantilla probably definitely has something to do with it. But it shouldn't! Grr. Anyway, I'm just saying that I will be going through this with you! (If this counts as something to 'go through').

[quote name='the lords sheep' post='1566454' date='Jun 10 2008, 07:44 AM']On another note, I am utterly fascinated with this topic. It's frankly never even crossed my mind to wear a veil to Mass/Adoration. I've never known anyone to do it but postulants in religious orders....
Does anyone know of any good documents/references that I can read that especially talk about the theology behind the veil?
Thanks,
Lauren[/quote]

I hadn't thought of it until about a year ago, when my friend who was taking me to Latin Mass advised me to bring a veil or scarf to cover my head.. I was like, wait, people still wear veils for religious reasons? But yeah, when you think about it, there's more than one reason why nuns' habits include veils! That's also a reason of mine.. I figure it's kind of 'practice' for religious life wearing a veil in God's presence now. When I get shy or embarrassed at Mass/Adoration wearing it, I just think, well, if I were a nun right now, I'd be wearing the same thing, wouldn't I? (I don't know if imagining being a nun is a bad way to get through it, but it works...)
You know, I don't know any documents specifically about veiling; I was wondering the same thing. I have read several different things about it, online mostly, but I'll have to look back to find the good, reliable ones like what you're looking for..

[Maria_Faustina]

[quote name='Laudem Gloriae' post='1563664' date='Jun 8 2008, 08:03 PM']Just wear you're "pre-bridal veil" (if you are planning to be a Bride of Christ!) for your Beloved, Jesus, and let the others and their ill-informed opinions just hang! Jesus is the only one that matters. You should only worry about what GOD thinks about you, be concerned with HIS opinion only! Not mankind's. Our Blessed Virgin will be happy your are adorning yourself in this beautiful way for Her beloved, adorable Son too![/quote]

I had just read your post, then your comment about your pre-bridal veil slipped my mind as I wrote my last post--so it iS a good way to think about it! You worded it a lot better.... thank you for encouraging me more! Thinking about it as a 'pre-bridal' veil will help SO much, really... I am very happy thinking about it now. Yay!


[quote name='Maria Faustina' post='1563750' date='Jun 8 2008, 09:07 PM']I have a question. I am 14. Am I too young to wear a veil to Mass or Adoration?[/quote]

Actually, they make mantillas for younger girls (as in, they're a little smaller than normal size mantillas--not that it really matters), and there are even chapel caps for very young girls. They're little round pieces of lace that pin to your head. They work better for little girls because they stay put and don't hang in your face.
Not that those apply to you, but my point is that is has been anticipated for girls of any age to wear a veil! No matter how old you are, you are female, and He is God.

[VeniteAdoremus]

PP, I'm sorry! I already said that!

Anyway.

We had a hard time convincing one gentleman that no, we're not consecrated or anything, we're just, you know, women. With veils.

I think it helps if there are a bunch of you. Doing it alone can be scary. I'm also often afraid I'll disturb people... but well, I already disturb people by standing up straight, so I can just as well wear a chapel veil while doing it.

I've been on and off skirts over the last few years. Nowadays I always wear a skirt to church, and I used to just not wear trousers... but lately I've been wearing them again. Last Saturday, actually, I made a few people's eyes pop out because my church clothes were unsuitable for travel (in my opinion), so I changed in the presbytery before Mass. Unfortunately no-one answered the door so I went in through the church... in army pants... with veil, because I was in church. That was probably a combination the people chatting at the back hadn't seen yet.

For me, wearing a veil is a very personal thing. I used to have two, one with a tie and a bigger one (I should re-find the one with the tie, it was great). The one with the ties didn't obstruct my view but it did sit rather tight on my head, so I was always aware of it, and the other is always at the sides of my field of vision. These things help to remind me that I shouldn't be looking around, but inwards and forwards. It also works as a "busy" sign for those around me, and forces me to pause for a minute before I barge into the church.

And like M_F said, you're never too young for a veil. Wear it. Be totally cool. Infect everyone with the veil-virus.

[DiscerningSoul]

I thought I give a little update.

I have worn my veil at every Mass since this thread started and my skirt also.
I've had no problems with anyone at the two churches I attend at.
No more am I a nervous wreck.

I pray that more will come and veil in Mass.

[He is Risen!]

It can be a little scary to wear a veil to mass, especially if you are in a "liberal" diocese. I usually wear a plain dressy hat on Sundays or a scarf to weekday mass and always with a longish skirt and a loose shirt. I don't think that it draws too much attention, especially when I sit in the back.

[Rising_Suns]

[quote name='the lords sheep' post='1566454' date='Jun 10 2008, 08:44 AM']On another note, I am utterly fascinated with this topic. It's frankly never even crossed my mind to wear a veil to Mass/Adoration. I've never known anyone to do it but postulants in religious orders....
Does anyone know of any good documents/references that I can read that especially talk about the theology behind the veil?
Thanks,
Lauren[/quote]

Lauren,
Ave Maria.

I am glad to hear that this topic fascinates you. I think you are in good company, as more and more women today are taking back one of the many wonderful traditions that was taken from them over the past fifty years.

It is interesting to note that prior to the cultural revolution of the 1960's, every woman wore a veil to Mass. It was in fact required by Canon Law (1917). This tradition of women veiling their heads is a long-standing one, which, finds its roots in early Jewish heritage, as well as Sacred Scripture. The early Church fathers also supported veiling, and wrote short treatises in favor of it. It is similar to why a man does not wear a hat in Church as a sign of reverence and respect (however the veil has much deeper significance rooted in history).

A few articles:
[url="http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2006/08/on-women-and-veils.html"]http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2006/08/...-and-veils.html[/url]
[url="http://www.latin-mass-society.org/mantilla.htm"]http://www.latin-mass-society.org/mantilla.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.fisheaters.com/theveil.html"]http://www.fisheaters.com/theveil.html[/url]
[url="http://web2.iadfw.net/carlsch/MaterDei/Library/the_veil.htm"]http://web2.iadfw.net/carlsch/MaterDei/Library/the_veil.htm[/url]

-Davide

Edited August 7, 2008 by Rising_Suns

[Thomist-in-Training]

[quote name='DiscerningSoul' post='1563808' date='Jun 8 2008, 09:50 PM']Your never too young.
[/quote]

That's right! At the TLM I go to, the little girls have them too, and some of the baby girls have snoods. It doesn't have any connotations about age (except people who think it's outdated, but twenty would be just as outdated as fourteen if 'twere so).

[DiscerningSoul]

[url="http://www.catholicplanet.com/veil/index.htm"]http://www.catholicplanet.com/veil/index.htm[/url]
[url="http://adorotedevote.blogspot.com/2006/05/...to-veil_24.html"]http://adorotedevote.blogspot.com/2006/05/...to-veil_24.html[/url]
[url="http://web2.airmail.net/carlsch/MaterDei/H...omily040523.htm"]http://web2.airmail.net/carlsch/MaterDei/H...omily040523.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.fisheaters.com/theveil.html"]http://www.fisheaters.com/theveil.html[/url]
** [url="http://catholicknight.blogspot.com/2007/12...l-campaign.html"]http://catholicknight.blogspot.com/2007/12...l-campaign.html[/url] **
[url="http://catholicrestorationists.wordpress.c...he-chapel-veil/"]http://catholicrestorationists.wordpress.c...he-chapel-veil/[/url]
[url="http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/2007/04/v...-in-church.html"]http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/2007/04/v...-in-church.html[/url]
[url="http://www.canonlaw.info/2006/09/vatican-i...apel-veils.html"]http://www.canonlaw.info/2006/09/vatican-i...apel-veils.html[/url]
Funny but look at #1 Yes! [url="http://aestasultima.blogspot.com/2007/06/o...ghter-note.html"]http://aestasultima.blogspot.com/2007/06/o...ghter-note.html[/url]
[url="http://www.latin-mass-society.org/wearmantilla.htm"]http://www.latin-mass-society.org/wearmantilla.htm[/url]
[url="http://culbreath.wordpress.com/2007/10/13/latin-mass-faq/"]http://culbreath.wordpress.com/2007/10/13/latin-mass-faq/[/url]
[url="http://www.catholicplanet.com/women/headcovering.htm"]http://www.catholicplanet.com/women/headcovering.htm[/url]

[VeniteAdoremus]

All the links that were shortened, with dots in it, don't work here...

In any case, if anyone wants to cover her head but is put off by the idea of a piece of lace on her head, please remember that a simple hat is just as proper and just as traditional (they've been worn by women in my country ever since Catholicism came out of oppression 155 years ago).

(This is not meant as mantilla-bashing - I wear one myself )

Edited August 7, 2008 by VeniteAdoremus

[DiscerningSoul]

[quote name='DiscerningSoul' post='1561733' date='Jun 6 2008, 11:31 PM'][url="http://www.catholicplanet.com/veil/index.htm"]http://www.catholicplanet.com/veil/index.htm[/url]
[url="http://adorotedevote.blogspot.com/2006/05/to-veil-or-not-to-veil_24.html"]http://adorotedevote.blogspot.com/2006/05/...to-veil_24.html[/url]
[url="http://web2.airmail.net/carlsch/MaterDei/Homilies/homily040523.htm"]http://web2.airmail.net/carlsch/MaterDei/H...omily040523.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.fisheaters.com/theveil.html"]http://www.fisheaters.com/theveil.html[/url]
** [url="http://catholicknight.blogspot.com/2007/12/chapel-veil-campaign.html"]http://catholicknight.blogspot.com/2007/12...l-campaign.html[/url] **
[url="http://catholicrestorationists.wordpress.com/2007/06/29/theology-of-the-chapel-veil/"]http://catholicrestorationists.wordpress.c...he-chapel-veil/[/url]
[url="http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/2007/04/veils-and-hats-in-church.html"]http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/2007/04/v...-in-church.html[/url]
[url="http://www.canonlaw.info/2006/09/vatican-ii-canon-1262-and-chapel-veils.html"]http://www.canonlaw.info/2006/09/vatican-i...apel-veils.html[/url]
Funny but look at #1 Yes! [url="http://aestasultima.blogspot.com/2007/06/on-lighter-note.html"]http://aestasultima.blogspot.com/2007/06/o...ghter-note.html[/url]
[url="http://www.latin-mass-society.org/wearmantilla.htm"]http://www.latin-mass-society.org/wearmantilla.htm[/url]
[url="http://culbreath.wordpress.com/2007/10/13/latin-mass-faq/"]http://culbreath.wordpress.com/2007/10/13/latin-mass-faq/[/url]
[url="http://www.catholicplanet.com/women/headcovering.htm"]http://www.catholicplanet.com/women/headcovering.htm[/url]

OK I am sold, a veil for Mass.
<<they didn't have any veils so hats will have to do. LOL[/quote]

[DiscerningSoul]

[quote name='DiscerningSoul' date='06 June 2008 - 10:31 PM' timestamp='1212805912' post='1561733']
[url="http://www.catholicplanet.com/veil/index.htm"]http://www.catholicplanet.com/veil/index.htm[/url]
[url="http://adorotedevote.blogspot.com/2006/05/to-veil-or-not-to-veil_24.html"]http://adorotedevote.blogspot.com/2006/05/...to-veil_24.html[/url]
[url="http://web2.airmail.net/carlsch/MaterDei/Homilies/homily040523.htm"]http://web2.airmail.net/carlsch/MaterDei/H...omily040523.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.fisheaters.com/theveil.html"]http://www.fisheaters.com/theveil.html[/url]
** [url="http://catholicknight.blogspot.com/2007/12/chapel-veil-campaign.html"]http://catholicknight.blogspot.com/2007/12...l-campaign.html[/url] **
[url="http://catholicrestorationists.wordpress.com/2007/06/29/theology-of-the-chapel-veil/"]http://catholicrestorationists.wordpress.c...he-chapel-veil/[/url]
[url="http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/2007/04/veils-and-hats-in-church.html"]http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/2007/04/v...-in-church.html[/url]
[url="http://www.canonlaw.info/2006/09/vatican-ii-canon-1262-and-chapel-veils.html"]http://www.canonlaw.info/2006/09/vatican-i...apel-veils.html[/url]
Funny but look at #1 Yes! [url="http://aestasultima.blogspot.com/2007/06/on-lighter-note.html"]http://aestasultima.blogspot.com/2007/06/o...ghter-note.html[/url]
[url="http://www.latin-mass-society.org/wearmantilla.htm"]http://www.latin-mass-society.org/wearmantilla.htm[/url]
[url="http://culbreath.wordpress.com/2007/10/13/latin-mass-faq/"]http://culbreath.wordpress.com/2007/10/13/latin-mass-faq/[/url]
[url="http://www.catholicplanet.com/women/headcovering.htm"]http://www.catholicplanet.com/women/headcovering.htm[/url]

OK I am sold, a veil for Mass.
<<they didn't have any veils so hats will have to do. LOL
[/quote]
I thought I would bump this for my other topic.
A nice reminder for the rest.

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='Deus_te_Amat' date='07 June 2008 - 12:57 AM' timestamp='1212818273' post='1562115']
Maria_Faustina, I'm kind of in the same situation with you.--No one at my church veils. One or two older women wear hats, but no veils.

I would smell of elderberries it up and veil with you this weekend, but the woman that gave me the veil took it back to put a clip in it. She's planning on mailing it when I go to college.... I think it would also be hard to play the flute with a veil on... Talk about doubly conspicuous!

I'll pray for you though, if you decide to do it. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img]
[/quote]


JMJ
I know I am really late with this! I played my flute for Midnight Mass Carols (before Mass started!) and I just tied my veil very loosely underneath my chin, it works fine!

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
For how to keep a veil on: two of my veils have combs sewed into them. For scarves, I tie them under my chin. I have a jeweled hair pin from scunci that works wonders. It is magnetic, and stays on very well. The Benedictine nuns I know have a bit of velcro on their wimples that keep their veils on (the veils have corresponding velcro strips, and they match up perfectly) I also talked to a Muslim lady at the Mall who was hawking purses, and she said for her hijab, she wear her hair in a high ponytail or bun, and the veil catches over it perfectly, and stays on. I tried this at First Saturday, and, amazingly, it worked! By the way, can someone talk to a moderator, or Dust (I think that's his name?) about getting an emoticon with a mantilla, bab ushka, veil, or burka? I don't mind which! And maybe someone could find a nun emoticon... that would be even cooler!

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='19 January 2010 - 01:33 PM' timestamp='1263922432' post='2040182']
JMJ
I know I am really late with this! I played my flute for Midnight Mass Carols (before Mass started!) and I just tied my veil very loosely underneath my chin, it works fine!
[/quote]

I've wondering about this -- since I'm a flutist as well -- have you every tried with the veil tied behind under your hair, kind of like a bandana? And if so, does that work well? (Hmm.. I hope that makes sense.)

I find it really uncomfortable playing my flute while having anything tied underneath my chin.

Ooh, and also, Tridenteen -- can you explain how you sewed the comb into the veil? I've been trying to visualize how this looks, but honestly I can't figure it out. I just keep staring at my veil (white lace) and my comb.

I don't get it...

[brightsadness]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='19 January 2010 - 11:12 AM' timestamp='1263924773' post='2040191']
I've wondering about this -- since I'm a flutist as well [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/punk.gif[/img] -- have you every tried with the veil tied behind under your hair, kind of like a bandana? And if so, does that work well? (Hmm.. I hope that makes sense.)

I find it really uncomfortable playing my flute while having anything tied underneath my chin. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img]

Ooh, and also, Tridenteen -- can you explain how you sewed the comb into the veil? I've been trying to visualize how this looks, but honestly I can't figure it out. I just keep staring at my veil (white lace) and my comb. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif[/img]

[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/dunce.gif[/img] I don't get it... [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cry.gif[/img]
[/quote]


I would reccomend small clips in blending colours. ALso, I often tie my scarf under my hair.

[Thomist-in-Training]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='19 January 2010 - 01:12 PM' timestamp='1263924773' post='2040191']
I've wondering about this -- since I'm a flutist as well -- have you every tried with the veil tied behind under your hair, kind of like a bandana? And if so, does that work well? (Hmm.. I hope that makes sense.)

I find it really uncomfortable playing my flute while having anything tied underneath my chin.

Ooh, and also, Tridenteen -- can you explain how you sewed the comb into the veil? I've been trying to visualize how this looks, but honestly I can't figure it out. I just keep staring at my veil (white lace) and my comb.

I don't get it...
[/quote]


I haven't sewed one myself but I've seen that kind... For a triangular veil that you wear with the long side over your forehead and around the two sides of your face, people sew a small comb with the straight end near the hairline (and that long side), and then you push the pointy ends into your hair. I tried to make a keyboard diagram but it didn't work, oh well. Basically the prongs of the comb face the back of your head--think of some kinds of headband that are 'comblike' and you push it backwards into your hair.

hope this helps