Homeless People

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1560160' date='Jun 5 2008, 05:06 PM']When my daughter lived in Pgh she encountered many street people. The first time she handed them money, or gift cert for McDs. The second time she handed them the numbers for shelters and agencies. THe third time she handed out spplications for McDonalds, Wendys etc THat was the last time she gave them anything. She would listen to their stories, but no aid to their various habits.[/quote]
Do the applications work though? I mean, if they are homeless, they might not have an address or a phone number to be contacted at, to get the job, to get the clothing they need. I know that the Union Rescue Mission gives homeless people who stay there an address to put down, which supposedly helps them a lot.

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Deb' post='1572671' date='Jun 16 2008, 09:20 AM']This is today's "Take five for faith" message. How timely.

[b][color="#008080"]Monday, June 16[/color][/b]
[b]Bottomless pockets[/b]

People often seek guidance about how to respond to the "spare change" people who camp out on city streets. They also want to know what to do with the mountains of solicitations they receive in the mail. Obviously, if we gave every single time we’re approached, some of us would be asking for spare change ourselves before long. But the secret truth we don’t like to acknowledge is that most of us could give far more than we do. The best advice I’ve received is: Give till it scares you. That’s the threshold where the faith walk begins. Today’s readings:[i] 1 Kings 21:1-16; Matthew 5:38-42[/i] [i]"Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you."[/i][/quote]
I think it is important to be able to care for our families when we know that they will be in need. I don't have a lot to give without giving things up (education, insurance, car, lack of ebay selling account for old junk), and my parents want me to have insurance for my inhalor and finish my degree.

I like the gift card idea. I sometimes have microwavable food in my car that I've thought about giving to someone that I saw at a street corner once. I've heard that there are homeless people around school, so I guess they could use a microwave there. I try to give only a small amount of money, like a dollar or two if anything. It still makes me feel bad when I don't do anything. If I see someone on a hot day and it is near a little store, I ask if they would like some water or something.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Light and Truth' post='1577810' date='Jun 20 2008, 06:14 PM']I think it is important to be able to care for our families when we know that they will be in need. I don't have a lot to give without giving things up (education, insurance, car, lack of ebay selling account for old junk), and my parents want me to have insurance for my inhalor and finish my degree.

I like the gift card idea. I sometimes have microwavable food in my car that I've thought about giving to someone that I saw at a street corner once. I've heard that there are homeless people around school, so I guess they could use a microwave there. I try to give only a small amount of money, like a dollar or two if anything. It still makes me feel bad when I don't do anything. If I see someone on a hot day and it is near a little store, I ask if they would like some water or something.[/quote]


Thought I would add my 2 cents.

My thought is I give them money(cash) whenever I see them. I look at it this way, remeber what Jesus told the man who asked about getting into heaven. He basically told him to sell his possession, give all his money to the poor and follow him. The man was greatly saddened and Jesus said its easier for a camal to go through the eye of a neddle than it is for a rich man to enter heaven.

The gospal is all about preaching the word of God and doing good works. We are called to preach the gospal and help those who are less fortunate.

Look at it this way, what do you think Jesus would do if a homeless person asked him for money. Do you really think Jesus would say no. Or do you really think Jesus would hand the person a card where to get help from, such as a shelter. Or do you think Jesus if he had the money would gladly give it to the man. Seriously, what would Jesus do in this instance.

I personally think its horrible to give a homeless person a shelter's phone number instead of money. How hard is it really to part with your money. Its only money. Also the reasoning of, well he might use it on drugs or alcohol does not work because then you must never purchase anything from anyone since you do not know their intent. Do you really know the intent of the kid who is a chasier at Hyvee and how he will spend his money. You do not know his intent yet you are fine supporting his salary. Although when it comes to the homeless, they are less worthy in some people's eyes and what they spend their money on is more important than what the local cashier spends his money on. If you have employees who work for you do you pay them in gift cards so that way you can be certain what they spend on their money on? Why is ok to support someone else's salary when you don;t know where the money is going, yet not ok to do the same for a homeless person. They are people too.

One last thing to end on, what does Jesus say in the new testament:

When I was hungry you gave me food.
When I was thirsty you gave me drink.
When I was naked you gave me clothes.

Never once does Jesus say when I was hungry you gave me information on where to get help, but gave none yourself and instead kept your money to yourself.

[rckllnknny]

Jesus would give him/her everything he had.

[Alycin]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1582159' date='Jun 24 2008, 08:30 PM']your 2 cents...[/quote]


People didn't say they wouldn't help, they said they would be more likely to give them actual food and/or restaurant coupons.

Homeless ministries don't just take up collections and then hand out 50 bucks to every homeless person. They offer those people food, clothes, blankets, toiletries, and, when they can, shelter.

In my opinion, there is a very big difference between someone who tosses some coins at a homeless person as they walk down the street, and someone who says, "Can I buy you dinner?" to that person. One person is doing something that doesn't take much effort, the other is offering the gift of time. One person spends only seconds near the homeless individual, while the other actually spends time with them and shows them that someone sincerely cares.

How easy is it to write a check for something and then never think about it again? Like with New Orleans? Of course it was wonderful that people opened their checkbooks and donated to the hurricane victims, but some people literally left their jobs and went to New Orleans and gave the gift of time. THAT is amazing.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Alycin

[havok579257]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1582179' date='Jun 24 2008, 08:43 PM']People didn't say they wouldn't help, they said they would be more likely to give them actual food and/or restaurant coupons.

Homeless ministries don't just take up collections and then hand out 50 bucks to every homeless person. They offer those people food, clothes, blankets, toiletries, and, when they can, shelter.

In my opinion, there is a very big difference between someone who tosses some coins at a homeless person as they walk down the street, and someone who says, "Can I buy you dinner?" to that person. One person is doing something that doesn't take much effort, the other is offering the gift of time. One person spends only seconds near the homeless individual, while the other actually spends time with them and shows them that someone sincerely cares.

How easy is it to write a check for something and then never think about it again? Like with New Orleans? Of course it was wonderful that people opened their checkbooks and donated to the hurricane victims, but some people literally left their jobs and went to New Orleans and gave the gift of time. THAT is amazing.[/quote]

True your idea is better but I would never want my wife to do something like that and she never would because she would be to afraid. As sad as it is, some people in society do bad and evil things. Its very hard to trust someone you have never met. My wife would never be comfortable spending time with a stranger because of all the stuff she see's on tv and because of what she knows about my job and how some people are. I have no problem doing stuff like that and have done it before but that's because I could defend myself in a given situation, some people can not. Also not every instance can you stop and have a meal and conversation with someone. If you need to be somewhere and come across someone begging for money, should you not give him the money. Yes, sitting with them would be better but that is not always an option. So should we not do the most we can at the time.

New Orleans is exactly what I am talking about. Inside that Superdome there was a women who was cut to pieces, numerous women were raped and many other men and women were killed. Its very hard for people to trust strangers when stuff like this happens.

But some people in this topic are saying they don't give them money because it could go to drugs or alcohol. Or some say they give out shelter numbers but refuse to give money.

Why is it so hard for people that if someone asks for money, to just give them what they need. How many people on here, if a family member despretly needed money would tell them no? Would you not give them money if that's what they were in desperate need of? So why not homeless people who are is desperate need of money?

What's so hard about when someone asks for money you give them everything you can? If they need the money more, why not give it to them. Why do people feel the need to not give others help when they ask for it?

[Alycin]

Havoc, you can't have it both ways.

You can't say that you shouldn't spend time with and minister to the homeless because they might kill/harm you, and then turn around and condemn the people who don't give money to them because they might spend it on drugs or alcohol.

Sorry, but in both situations, the "better safe than sorry" route is being taken.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Alycin

[havok579257]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1582411' date='Jun 24 2008, 11:20 PM']Havoc, you can't have it both ways.

You can't say that you shouldn't spend time with and minister to the homeless because they might kill/harm you, and then turn around and condemn the people who don't give money to them because they might spend it on drugs or alcohol.

Sorry.[/quote]


Its not both ways. I am saying ideally one should do that, minster to them and give them money. Although if someone does not feel safe ministering to them alone, or if they are worried about being alone with a stranger, then they should still give to the homeless but should not be looked at upon as bad for not ministering to them alone or not having enough time.

An example is your driving to work and as you come to a stop light there is a homeless person asking for money. Obviously you need to get to work or you will lose your job, so ministering to them right now is not an option, so in that instance give them whatever they ask for. If you happen to come upon a homeless person later in your day and your not needing to be anywhere then minister to them AND give them what they ask for.

The other example is let's say your driving home from work and its 11pm. You drive past a homeless person who is holding a sign asking for money. Now many women would not feel safe pulling over and ministering to a stranger all alone in the middle of the night. One should still give them whatever they ask for, but if they don't feel comfortable ministering to them at that moment because of the conditions, then that is ok.

Its like, soilders who serve in the army in Iraq should minister to the people in Iraq about Jesus Christ but at a time when they are not in fear for something happening to them. Like in the middle of gunfire you should not run across enemy lines and try to minister to the people shooting at you.



Basically I am saying, ideally give them whatever they need and minister to them. Although if you can not miniter to them at the moment out of having to be somewhere or not feeling safe in the current enviornment, the least we can do is give them whatever they ask for. Not giving anything at all or refusing to give money because what they might do with their money is just plain wrong.

[Alycin]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1582424' date='Jun 24 2008, 11:30 PM']It is not both ways.[/quote]

It is just as dangerous to roll down your window at 11 o clock at night. You could have your car hijacked!

This is why your argument doesn't work.

My parents always say, "DON'T stop and help someone on the side of the road, it is DANGEROUS!" I always feel like I should, but really, what could I do? I can't even change my own tires. However, it *is* good to dial the number for roadside assistance and make sure that someone is on the way to help them.

In rehab lots of people talk about how their families enabled them, and counselors will tell addicts' families that in enabling them, you are helping to kill them. When someone gives someone money, they may very well be enabling an addiction, and therefore not helping them at all. It is better to be involved in a ministry actually helping the homeless, in my opinion, than to just give them money that they MIGHT spend on drugs or alcohol. Now, in your opinion, I am being judgmental for thinking they MIGHT use the money on drugs or alcohol. But, if that is the case, then you are also being judgmental in thinking that they MIGHT harm/kill someone. If you can get close enough to them to give them money, it's close enough for them to hurt you.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1582441' date='Jun 24 2008, 11:39 PM']It is just as dangerous to roll down your window at 11 o clock at night. You could have your car hijacked!

This is why your argument doesn't work.

My parents always say, "DON'T stop and help someone on the side of the road, it is DANGEROUS!" I always feel like I should, but really, what could I do? I can't even change my own tires. However, it *is* good to dial the number for roadside assistance and make sure that someone is on the way to help them.

In rehab lots of people talk about how their families enabled them, and counselors will tell addicts' families that in enabling them, you are helping to kill them. When someone gives someone money, they may very well be enabling an addiction, and therefore not helping them at all. It is better to be involved in a ministry actually helping the homeless, in my opinion, than to just give them money that they MIGHT spend on drugs or alcohol. Now, in your opinion, I am being judgmental for thinking they MIGHT use the money on drugs or alcohol. But, if that is the case, then you are also being judgmental in thinking that they MIGHT harm/kill someone. If you can get close enough to them to give them money, it's close enough for them to hurt you.[/quote]

Calling roadside assitance without asking them if they have not already called is not something I advise. here is why, I work as a paramedic and always during car accidents numerous people drive past an accident and call 911 about the accident. They don't stop to see if someone just called, they just drive past and call. The problem lies in when like 5 different people call and dispatch recieves five different calls. We are then forced to dispatch 5 ambulances for the one car accident. Which then leaves other parts of the city un-covered by ambulance crews, thus delaying care to someone else who needs our help, cause we are busy sending 5 ambulances to that same area. If you are going to call, then at least stop and ask the person if they have already called. By just driving by and calling your actually causing more problems for the city as we have numerous duplicate calls since when driving past an accident on the highway there is no street names so its hard to determine until we are on scene if the calls are duplicates or not. Not to mention its no help to dispatch if someone says there is an accident at so and so place but I have no idea if anyone even needs an ambualnce.


What's dangerous to one person is not dangerous to others. I have drove homeless people to get something to eat with me and I was not scared. Like I said, it depends on what the person considers safe.

I never said people were judgemental for not giving them money, I said they were 100% wrong for not doing it as there are NUMEROUS stories in the bible about us supposed to be giving to the homeless. Never once does it say only give to shelters. Jesus calls us to give to the poor, give our money, sell our possessions.

Now your twisting words to try and make your point. I said as long as one feels SAFE, then they should do whatever we are called to do by Jesus and God. If one does not feel safe, then that is a different matter entirerly. Although not giving money just because you think the money might end up supporting a habit is no reason not to help. Like I said earlier, do you ask Hyvee about how all their employees spend their money before you use their services? You could very well be supporting a habit a cashier has. Or is it only the homeless who have habit problems?

[Alycin]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1582480' date='Jun 25 2008, 12:01 AM']I never said people were judgemental for not giving them money, I said they were 100% wrong for not doing it as there are NUMEROUS stories in the bible about us supposed to be giving to the homeless. Never once does it say only give to shelters. Jesus calls us to give to the poor, give our money, sell our possessions.

Now your twisting words to try and make your point. I said as long as one feels SAFE, then they should do whatever we are called to do by Jesus and God. If one does not feel safe, then that is a different matter entirerly. Although not giving money just because you think the money might end up supporting a habit is no reason not to help. Like I said earlier, do you ask Hyvee about how all their employees spend their money before you use their services? You could very well be supporting a habit a cashier has. Or is it only the homeless who have habit problems?[/quote]

1) I said roadside assistance and not 911. Two different things here. Soooo yeah. Whatever.

2) You imply that people are judging all homeless people as having habit problems. Just take a look at your last sentence. (You make this way too easy for me. )

3) I never said, "Don't help." You are using black and white thinking. I said, "Help in more effective ways." But you overlooked that part.

4) The bible says to help the poor, it does not specifically say homeless, but the homeless are included under that category. However, there are many ways to help. I believe ministries are more effective. It's also highly likely that ministries are more effective.

5) I have no idea what Hyvee is. I assume maybe it's a grocery store? Also--I talked about something I learned in rehab, so you implying that I am judging homeless people (Yes, whether you admit it or not, you are implying that I am judging) as being the only people who have addictions is utterly ridiculous.

6) Why haven't you sold your computer? You could pawn it for some cash and find a homeless person to give that cash to pretty easily.

Don't be a hypocrite.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1582537' date='Jun 25 2008, 12:36 AM']1) I said roadside assistance and not 911. Two different things here. Soooo yeah. Whatever.

2) You imply that people are judging all homeless people as having habit problems. Just take a look at your last sentence. (You make this way too easy for me. )

3) I never said, "Don't help." You are using black and white thinking. I said, "Help in more effective ways." But you overlooked that part.

4) The bible says to help the poor, it does not specifically say homeless, but the homeless are included under that category. However, there are many ways to help. I believe ministries are more effective. It's also highly likely that ministries are more effective.

5) I have no idea what Hyvee is. I assume maybe it's a grocery store? Also--I talked about something I learned in rehab, so you implying that I am judging homeless people (Yes, whether you admit it or not, you are implying that I am judging) as being the only people who have addictions is utterly ridiculous.

6) Why haven't you sold your computer? You could pawn it for some cash and find a homeless person to give that cash to pretty easily.

Don't be a hypocrite.[/quote]

1. Roadside assistance is the same idea as it sends more than one unit there. Which deprives someone else in need of assitance. I was giving you an example which you could use to see what I was talking about. Obviously it flew right over your head.

2. I am not implying anything, I am directly going off what other posters have said in this topic. If you go back and read what other people wrote, you will see it is exactly what I am talking about. There is no implying, there is only going off what was posted.

3. Once again, please go back and read the posts before yours. Numerous posters stated that they would NOT give a thing such as money to homeless people because they might spend it on their supposed habit. They instead give them cards with shelter numbers on them.

4. I would not say ministries are always more effective. A body does need to eat and if a poor person can not eat, they will die. Ministries are important but so is money for food and shelter. If one can not even afford a place to stay or a food to eat, then they will die. Simple as that.

5. Again, not judging, just going off what you posted which was in relation to what I originally posted. Ok once again, my first post was SPECIFIC in that it was about what people were posting. I do not know if you did not read the previous posts before mine, but it seems you think my post came out of the blue and what not. It was infact in response to what others said. Also just because you learned something does not make it universal which you seem to imply. Yes, you do not explicitly state it this way, but your words IMPLY your thinking to be this way. I am going off of how you posted your message. I have learned working in my proffession there are homeless people who can't catch a break and have no habit they are feeding but at the time are just down on their luck. Now do I think this applies to everyone, no.

6. And once again, you twist words to make your argument. Did I state you must sell everything you own so you to are poor now? I did not state sell every possession you own. But once again, you twist things to try and make your point instead of realizing you might not be 100% correct on everything. I said if someone aks for money give them some. If you walk past someone who says I am starving can I have some money please, don't hand them a card with a shelter number on it. Give them some money. SImple as that.

Oh and just for clarification, I should sell this computer to give the money to the poor. Ideally that's what I should do, but I am not ideal and am no where near perfect. I never said I was but yet you twists words to imply I am. I try my best to follow the teachings of Jesus. Do I fall short? Often. Although what can one expect, I am niether a saint or perfect. I am simply human. I try my best to follow his teachings. He says help the poor and give whatever is aksed of you. So that's what I try to do. Refusing to give money and instead giving shelter numbers is doing the opposite of what Jesus taught us.

[Alycin]

I am only going to comment on number 4 because all your arguments are circular. After that I'm done.

Homeless ministries DO feed (and often clothe and shelter) people. If you read my posts you would know that!

[havok579257]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1582589' date='Jun 25 2008, 01:43 AM']I am only going to comment on number 4 because all your arguments are circular. After that I'm done.

Homeless ministries DO feed (and often clothe and shelter) people. If you read my posts you would know that! [/quote]

Not all ministries do. The Catholic shelter we have in the heart of KC is only open for one meal a day and the portions given to the people are so small due to so many homeless people all coming to one place. Not to mention we consistantly run out of food and have to tell people sorry, you got here to late for any food.

Also since the shelter is only open for select hours people can only get clothes during those hours and if they don't get them then, then they are out of luck.

Not to mention a lot of the shelters in KC run out of room for people to stay in or the places are not kept up to liveable standards. Also many are not safe and we are called to them many times because homeless people are assulted there by other homeless people. Security is very poor or non-existant. Also I was talking someone a while ago who was homeless who said some shelters require people to pay a dollar to stay there for the night. Althoguh a dollar is not much, if no one gives the homeless any money, then how does one attain a place to stay.

It would be great if things worked out perfectly but I think we can all agree that the system of dealing with and helping the poor is anything but perfect.


Now I am NOT implying this happens everywhere but this does happen in KC as I know for a fact. So ministiries while the intent is good, do not always help everyone who needs it.

Here is my question, why do you seem to have a problem giving homeless people some cash of yours when you walk past one on the street?

[Alycin]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1582597' date='Jun 25 2008, 01:52 AM']Not all ministries do. The Catholic shelter we have in the heart of KC is only open for one meal a day and the portions given to the people are so small due to so many homeless people all coming to one place. Not to mention we consistantly run out of food and have to tell people sorry, you got here to late for any food.

Also since the shelter is only open for select hours people can only get clothes during those hours and if they don't get them then, then they are out of luck.

Not to mention a lot of the shelters in KC run out of room for people to stay in or the places are not kept up to liveable standards. Also many are not safe and we are called to them many times because homeless people are assulted there by other homeless people. Security is very poor or non-existant. Also I was talking someone a while ago who was homeless who said some shelters require people to pay a dollar to stay there for the night. Althoguh a dollar is not much, if no one gives the homeless any money, then how does one attain a place to stay.

It would be great if things worked out perfectly but I think we can all agree that the system of dealing with and helping the poor is anything but perfect.
Now I am NOT implying this happens everywhere but this does happen in KC as I know for a fact. So ministiries while the intent is good, do not always help everyone who needs it.

Here is my question, why do you seem to have a problem giving homeless people some cash of yours when you walk past one on the street?[/quote]

I don't. I have a problem with you telling people they should when you don't know in what other ways they help.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1582602' date='Jun 25 2008, 02:00 AM']I don't. I have a problem with you telling people they should when you don't know in what other ways they help.[/quote]


Once again I was specificlly talking to people who said they REFUSE to give the homeless anything besides numbers to shelters. They would not give them money or help other than cards for shelters. They said they were doing this to not feed into their supposed habits.

[Alycin]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1582612' date='Jun 25 2008, 02:14 AM']Once again I was specificlly talking to people who said they REFUSE to give the homeless anything besides numbers to shelters. They would not give them money or help other than cards for shelters. They said they were doing this to not feed into their supposed habits.[/quote]


I just went back and read EVERY SINGLE POST.

Exactly ONE person said they don't give cash but give the information for a shelter that they have personal experience with. That ONE person also talked about the extensive work they did with the homeless.

So maybe you should change your wording to 'i was specifically talking to the one person out of the 32 people that responded'

Edited June 25, 2008 by Alycin

[Justin86]

Out of everyone in this thread I agree the most with Alycin.



Now how does kujo feel on the topic? The universe is about to implode again...

Edited June 25, 2008 by Justin86

[Lucy Lionheart]

there are plenty of people with bad habits who are not homeless but as long as we are not mean to them why does it matter

we just hafta do our best

i don't agree with giving cash either

i have sold way too much alcohol to homeless guys who got change from waiting outside the store

i even hide the take a penny when they come becuase i don't want to give into their habits

i give pennies to the kids who want to buy soda or the moms who run a penny or two over fueling their mini van

[Alycin]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1582679' date='Jun 25 2008, 07:54 AM']Out of everyone in this thread I agree the most with Alycin.[/quote]