Weight Loss For The Lord

[alicemary]

There are worse factors then merely weight that affect ones longevity and usefulness. Several, like genetics, you have no control over. I am overweight. I am 54. I am in relativity good health, good enought to go out each day and work as a nurse on a very busy unit. I am not keeling over yet, nor unproductive, so be very careful of judging others.
And there is definetly some sex discrimination going on....an obese man is allowed to enter the seminary, and I don't hear a discussion of it. Oh heck, all men have beer bellies....sure. A woman is always expected to be rail thin.

[gloriagurl]

[quote name='alicemary' post='1577305' date='Jun 20 2008, 10:05 AM']And there is definetly some sex discrimination going on....an obese man is allowed to enter the seminary, and I don't hear a discussion of it. Oh heck, all men have beer bellies....sure. A woman is always expected to be rail thin.[/quote]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

I might also add that men don't have the same problems as women when seeking to enter religious community later in life. Yes, some seminaries/orders are starting to have age limits for men, but I've not seen anything close to the 33 or 35 year old limits I see for many women's communities. They may be out there but I've not seen them. For heaven's sake, I've seen 1 or 2 communities for women with a 29 year old age limit......Jesus Himself would have been too old for these folks.

When I think that it is women imposing this kind of (at least, borderline) discrimination on other women, I shudder. How sad that God's own daughters treat each other so shabbily and call it by various terms such as "discernment", "wisdom" and my personal favorite when we want to reject someone, "it is/isn't God's will that you be accepted to do this/that".

Now please don't all go off on me at once. I'm not saying that we ought not to seek the will of God, and I'm not saying that God's will is not "knowable" - I'm just saying that sometimes, some of us USE the term "will of God" as and excuse or reason to accept/reject a certain thing when really it's about a personal preference, choice, prejudice or even a very LEGITIMATE, but human, psychological, or perhaps even institutional reason/decision for a particular action. Sometimes we ought to leave the "will of God" out of it and start saying things like "We/I don't like it, don't want it, don't think it's a good idea", "don't trust it", "have determined it's not right for us" etc etc etc. In my opinion we could accept responsibility for a lot more of the "hard stuff" than we generally do.

I have no issue with a community encouraging a person (male or female) to a more healthy balanced lifestyle - one might even say it's an encouragement to lay aside the sin of gluttony (which it may be for some people)....but let's be fair about it. Weight can be as big a problem for men as it is for women but we all know that we have been culturally tuned to manifest unequal attitudes/treaments when it comes to women and weight. It comes through quite loud and clear in what some communities have said to women who approached them for discernment.

There is a feminism that is properly ordered and in line with the teaching of the Chruch - but sometimes it seems to me, just not being upheld.

[Thomist-in-Training]

To IrishSalesian with the problem of immodest gym-mates--How long is the gym open? I know some gyms open very, very early so maybe there's a time you can go with no one there. Maybe the desk clerks know?

[MissScripture]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1562895' date='Jun 7 2008, 07:22 PM']I'm not sure how... realistic? the concept of BMI is... Take myself for an example. I'm an athlete, so I train and lift weights and play sports all year round. I'm 5'2 and 160lbs. Which puts me at the high end of the over-weight almost obese end of the scale. Now, I could probably loose a bit around the middle section, but honestly, I don't have all that much fat on me. (Take a look at my profile picture, I'm a bit over-weight but no where near obese). It's mostly muscle. And I'm in good shape. I can squat twice my weight and can run a mile in less than 9 minutes. Yet, BMI tells me I'm nearing obesity.

As for communities judging a candidate based off of weight alone... I don't know. Yes, living a healthy life-style is important, but so is responding to God's call. People are different sizes, plain and simple. So long as a person is able to keep the daily routine of the community and does not pose extraordinary health problems on the community, I don't understand what the problem would be. I can see perhaps asking an over-weight or obese candidate to be able to stick to a certain meal-schedule/routine that is similar to the communities for a few months before entering, just so the community and the candidate can discern whether or not the candidate possess the self-control and will-power to live the life-style that may otherwise be difficult for someone of their weight. But if that pans out, I don't think it should be a barring factor. I think communities may need to take some extra discerning time with an over-weight or obese candidate for the above reasons, but I do not think it should be a reason to completely dismiss a candidate.[/quote]
BMI works better for non-athletes, because muscle weighs more than fat. And it's more of a guideline for risk-stratification and the like than a set in stone sort of scale.


[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1562973' date='Jun 7 2008, 09:09 PM']Thank ya'll, Ireally appreciate all your input. I am on a program of healthy eating (NOT a diet). I have been ever since I was ill in February. FOr me, at this point, having the desire, knowledge, skills and willpower to eat healthily is not an issue. I know what to eat, how much to eat, how often to eat, and I have the strong desire to continue doing so. Also importantly, I've discussed my eating program with many family and friends, so if I were to go back now, I would definitely be held accountable.
THe thing is, I've always been a sedentary person(aside from my job), especially since I'm such an avid reader. Now that I'm strong in my eating habits, I plan to begin some sort of structured excercise program. I havn't decided exactly what yet, I'll probably just start with walking,which is very convenient for me, and then progress from there.
I do understand that serious health issue are strongly correllated with obesity,DUH!
While I am not an athlete like Teresabenedicta, I am fairly active at work, do lots of lifting, so its not like I'm using a walker or something.[/quote]
[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1563590' date='Jun 8 2008, 04:49 PM']One thing that is suprising since I've lost some weight is the difference in energy level. I have A LOT more energy now. [/quote]
That's fantastic!
Really, how you feel is more important than the number on the scale.
I just graduated with a degree in exercise science so hearing this stuff makes me really happy.

Try getting a pedometer. I think 10,000 steps equals approximately five miles. Then you can sort of incorporate it into your day, already and do things like park farther away and always take the steps instead of an elevator. Little steps are the best way to make changes, because they're not overwhelming and they add up!

[quote name='hugheyforlife' post='1563775' date='Jun 8 2008, 08:23 PM']i think its more to do with your reserve energy. if im correct, being overweight exhausts you like three times as fast as you would normally exhaust. but i could be wrong.. and usually am... haha![/quote]
I don't know exact ratios like that but you're correct in the idea...
I know it takes more energy just to do the basics, because you're carrying around that much extra weight, plus its harder to breath, plus it elevates blood pressure and the blood has a whole lot further to travel. I was told by a physical therapist that for obese people, daily routines max them out, so if they get sick and can't move for a while, they have a lot harder time recovering, too.

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1576959' date='Jun 19 2008, 10:57 PM']It must be a relief to know that thin people never get sick or have health problems.[/quote]

Interesting fact: Researchers now believe that you need some fat on your heart. There have been deaths of world-class athletes that no one could explain, but one of the things that was noticed was that they lacked the streaks of fat on their heart that most people have.
Moderation is the key!

[quote name='the lords sheep' post='1577279' date='Jun 20 2008, 07:41 AM']I really love this topic, not only because I have struggled with my own weight for most of my life, but because it is something that is so human. I feel as if people, in focusing on the spiritual preparations to enter religious life (which is, of course, important) sometimes forget that they take their very human selves into the convent with them. And this human self includes things like weight issues, physical insecurities, health problems, etc. It's not as if it all ceases because one is now called Sister or Father or Brother.

Just my oho.

In Jesus and Mary,
Lauren[/quote]
In my exercise science program, we had some of the nuns (I went to a Catholic university that Benedictines had started) in our personal exercise programs (basically we were practicing being personal trainers). It was really odd doing the tests on them, because you had to have them take off their shirts for some (like ECG and skin-fold testing). And for me, it was really hard to ask a nun to take off her shirt, especially when my partner helping with the testing was a guy...

Edited June 20, 2008 by MissScripture

[CatherineM]

Alycin-I'm on a modified version of the Mediterranean diet. Whole grains, lots of fruits and vegetables, lean proteins like salmon and chicken breast, olive oil (in moderation), and measured in calories. I add in a lot of soy products that the Greeks probably wouldn't normally. I have a bad case of portion distortion, and can only make it work if I measure everything and write it down. There's a woman I saw on TV once who at the time was a diet guru to the stars. She had been heavy in the 50's, but had lost the weight, and more importantly, kept it off for decades. She still wrote everything down that she ate. Journaling is important. If your problem is spending, writing down where you spend every penny works, for me it's food. I also have to exercise. With my disabilities, about all I can do is walk or water aerobics. Movement is very important for me. I wish I could lose the weight I have left quicker, but I have to be patient and do it slowly. I didn't put it on overnight, and can't take it off quick either.

[Alycin]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1577693' date='Jun 20 2008, 03:52 PM']Alycin-I'm on a modified version of the Mediterranean diet. Whole grains, lots of fruits and vegetables, lean proteins like salmon and chicken breast, olive oil (in moderation), and measured in calories. I add in a lot of soy products that the Greeks probably wouldn't normally. I have a bad case of portion distortion, and can only make it work if I measure everything and write it down. There's a woman I saw on TV once who at the time was a diet guru to the stars. She had been heavy in the 50's, but had lost the weight, and more importantly, kept it off for decades. She still wrote everything down that she ate. Journaling is important. If your problem is spending, writing down where you spend every penny works, for me it's food. I also have to exercise. With my disabilities, about all I can do is walk or water aerobics. Movement is very important for me. I wish I could lose the weight I have left quicker, but I have to be patient and do it slowly. I didn't put it on overnight, and can't take it off quick either.[/quote]


Thanks.

[jkaands]

[quote name='alicemary' post='1577305' date='Jun 20 2008, 08:05 AM']There are worse factors then merely weight that affect ones longevity and usefulness. Several, like genetics, you have no control over. I am overweight. I am 54. I am in relativity good health, good enought to go out each day and work as a nurse on a very busy unit. I am not keeling over yet, nor unproductive, so be very careful of judging others.
And there is definetly some sex discrimination going on....an obese man is allowed to enter the seminary, and I don't hear a discussion of it. Oh heck, all men have beer bellies....sure. A woman is always expected to be rail thin.[/quote]

Well, women entering the non-habited OSB's aren't expected to be thin, judging from recent pix of the Cottonwood ID OSB's, who have had a number of professions in recent years, and the OSB's of OL of Grace in Beechgrove, IN, who had 4 final profession's recently and two were thin and two--weren't. As a matter of fact, one thing I've noticed about women entering religious life in recent years, albeit not entering the Collettines, have NOT been 'thin'--at all. However, when I look at the Nashville OP's and the DMME's, some look 'chunky' but none is fat--so for them a reasonable body weight may be a requirement. Do any of the discerners have info on who brings up the weight issue and who doesn't?

[jkaands]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1576959' date='Jun 19 2008, 10:57 PM']It must be a relief to know that thin people never get sick or have health problems.[/quote]

Sorry, I don't make the rules. The statistics show that obese individuals have many more serious health problems earlier. There is an epidemic of obesity in this country and health care providers and people in public health are frantically trying to bring it under control. People in their 30's are developing diabetes, hypertension and heart disease at unprecedented rates.

I have just as much trouble as every one else, but I'm a lot older. When I was young, long ago, I was a lot thinner than now, --and now I'm in the upper range of my overweight BMI, flirting with OBESE--aaugh!!!--and I can tell you that it just gets harder with age. Just do what works. I'm now doing salsaerobics and trying to survive from one week to the next--ha!

[jkaands]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1564133' date='Jun 8 2008, 10:44 PM']IrishS-I lost twice that much in 6 years, so your goal is obviously reasonable. The Center for Human Nutrition at the University of Colorado has the best information. They maintain a weight loss registry where anyone who has lost at least 30 pounds and kept it off for at least a year, can register and they collect information about how they did it. Most people on the register have actually lost 100 lbs. and kept it off for 3 years. 3 years is the the goal because they have found that once you keep it off for 3 years, it gets much easier to not regain. They have a listing of the 7 habits of highly effective weight loss maintainers, that has been very helpful to me.[/quote]

Very useful information and congratulations on your weight loss!! Very impressive!!

Also congratulations on your recently published book!!

Edited June 20, 2008 by jkaands

[jkaands]

[quote name='gloriagurl' post='1577470' date='Jun 20 2008, 10:32 AM']THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

I might also add that men don't have the same problems as women when seeking to enter religious community later in life. Yes, some seminaries/orders are starting to have age limits for men, but I've not seen anything close to the 33 or 35 year old limits I see for many women's communities. They may be out there but I've not seen them. For heaven's sake, I've seen 1 or 2 communities for women with a 29 year old age limit......Jesus Himself would have been too old for these folks.

When I think that it is women imposing this kind of (at least, borderline) discrimination on other women, I shudder. How sad that God's own daughters treat each other so shabbily and call it by various terms such as "discernment", "wisdom" and my personal favorite when we want to reject someone, "it is/isn't God's will that you be accepted to do this/that".

.....[/quote]

It's my impression that the traditional habited cloistered groups who are getting applicants are the ones who can afford to lower the age limit. It would be kinder and I think more accurate for them to say that they prefer a younger vocation because [i]in their experience [/i] the younger vocations have worked out better than the later ones. It's hard to argue with that. To say that it's God's will is presuming a lot , when another monastery down the road may have reached a very different conclusion.

[Saint Therese]

I think there is a definite problem when a community is more concerned with how fat a candidate is over what her spiritual life is like.
Are we really "weighing" the value of a vocation in pounds and dollars?

Edited June 21, 2008 by Saint Therese

[alicemary]

Jesus loves me, fat and all. If a community does not want to accept a good, solid vocation because they are heavy, shame on them. And I donl't think very young vocations stay any more then an older vocation would. I dont think Jesus would be happy with the age discrimination thing either. Again I must point out, from the look of many seminarians I see, many are older. I saw a 60 something year old, widow with kids and grandkids accepted to the seminary. Yet many convents still want never married woman. Double standart for sure

[MissScripture]

[quote name='alicemary' post='1578260' date='Jun 20 2008, 11:51 PM']Jesus loves me, fat and all. If a community does not want to accept a good, solid vocation because they are heavy, shame on them. And I donl't think very young vocations stay any more then an older vocation would. I dont think Jesus would be happy with the age discrimination thing either. Again I must point out, from the look of many seminarians I see, many are older. I saw a 60 something year old, widow with kids and grandkids accepted to the seminary. Yet many convents still want never married woman. Double standart for sure[/quote]
Our priest was one of those. He was going to be a deacon, when his wife died, and the Bishop asked him to continue on and become a priest. Another transitional decon we had converted (he had been Lutheran) and he'd been divorced (while he was Lutheran). I think he needed speical permission from the Bishop, though.

[jkaands]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1578784' date='Jun 21 2008, 12:59 PM']Our priest was one of those. He was going to be a deacon, when his wife died, and the Bishop asked him to continue on and become a priest. Another transitional decon we had converted (he had been Lutheran) and he'd been divorced (while he was Lutheran). I think he needed speical permission from the Bishop, though.[/quote]

I have personally met two older priests--one who was an Irishman from Scotland, and who taught for many years before he entered the seminary--the other was a Trappist brother for 19 years (!) before heeding a call, actually an all-points bulletin, to study for the priesthood to serve in rural New Mexico, where both of these priests now serve. Both appeared to be very happy.

[jkaands]

[quote name='alicemary' post='1578260' date='Jun 20 2008, 11:51 PM']...yet many convents still want never married woman. Double standard for sure[/quote]

...but many accept not only married women, but grandmothers with grandchildren. I don't think that the most trad cloisters want grandmothers, tho' I think this varies, but the 'updated' unhabited convents belonging to the largest orders--Bennies, Dominicans, Franciscans, have a substantial percentage of those joining who are older, formerly married, divorced, annulled, grandmothers with grandchildren who often attend their profession ceremonies!

Many of these new religious also have weight issues.

[CatherineM]

When my oldest was joining the Navy, the recruiter mentioned to me that of the high school kids he was trying to recruit, 50% were unavailable because of their weight, and 25% because of their hearing (ipod buds too high). In a time of hard vocations, it doesn't make any sense to me to cut 50% of potential novices out because they are average in our society.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='jkaands' post='1578795' date='Jun 21 2008, 01:24 PM']...but many accept not only married women, but grandmothers with grandchildren. I don't think that the most trad cloisters want grandmothers, tho' I think this varies, but the 'updated' unhabited convents belonging to the largest orders--Bennies, Dominicans, Franciscans, have a substantial percentage of those joining who are older, formerly married, divorced, annulled, grandmothers with grandchildren who often attend their profession ceremonies!

Many of these new religious also have weight issues.[/quote]
The president of my University is a sister, and her mother became a sister after he husband died and all the children were grown. It's really funny to be around them because you have one sister calling another "mom."

[jkaands]

that's not the only daughter-and-mother-who are sisters pair--Gemma can name others--foundresses and saints, I think...

[Caramelonion]

[quote name='alicemary' post='1578260' date='Jun 21 2008, 12:51 AM']Jesus loves me, fat and all. If a community does not want to accept a good, solid vocation because they are heavy, shame on them. And I donl't think very young vocations stay any more then an older vocation would. I dont think Jesus would be happy with the age discrimination thing either. Again I must point out, from the look of many seminarians I see, many are older. I saw a 60 something year old, widow with kids and grandkids accepted to the seminary. Yet many convents still want never married woman. Double standart for sure[/quote]

I can't agree with you more. God loves us for who we are...not what we look like or how old we are.

[jkaands]

Caramel, I love your moniker!