"phatmass Is Too Orthodox!" Stumbled On Some Pm Hating

[johnnydigit]

so.. i stumbled on someone's distaste of the majority of the views here, especially those considering religious life in the Vocation Station. hopefully i'm not doing the wrong thing by posting it, so i'm going to post it anonymously.

[quote]--this orthodox v. the non-ortho line is especially bad on Vocation Station on Phatmass, where there are a bunch of posters who belong to the Perpetually Discerning and/or who are ineligible for celibate life, ie they are married! They moon about the Latin Rite, The Latin Chant, pre 1962 missals, 1990 Constitutions (of the Discalced Carmelite nuns for the cognoscenti) and generally cast a dim view of Vatican II. Only fully habited, preferably papally cloistered orders will do, who preferably sing all of the above. Of course, these folks can't or haven't actually entered these orders! Another favorite are the videos of such orders in Europe, who don't speak English, and aren't likely to attract many Americans on the forum.

Non-habited orders and 'updated' orders don't cut it on Phatmass, so much so, that a few actual discerners and people who have actually entered and are persevering in these orders have quit in disgust. (They have PM'ed me privately).[/quote]

now we're welcomed to our difference of opinion regarding things that the Church gives us multiple options for, but is it me or can this language not detract others from joining in on one of the most active websites on the internet for young Catholic adults, especially those considering religious life? i guess you can look at it as free advertisement.

Edited June 26, 2008 by johnnydigit

[Farsight one]

Aren't non-habited orders technically breaking the rules?

[Justin86]

All phatmass does is talk about how great the Latin Mass is? Haven't we proven that false by now?

Edited June 26, 2008 by Justin86

[TotusTuusMaria]

It seems like they have only chosen to look at certain threads on Phatmass' Vocation Station and then say that all communities spoken about on Vocation Station are like those spoken of in those few threads.

There is one thread on which Margaret Clare and nunsense discuss the 1990 and 1991 Constitutions of Carmel. They were both spoken for by each person, neither saying one was ... better then the other, but each having different preferences. It is not like those that follow the 1991 Constitutions have been shunned from being talked about, rather Margaret Clare (who originally posted on the 1990/1991 Constitutions) even gave links and has on her personal site information on some Carmels that follow the 1991.

And anyone can see that not every community spoken of on vocation station has the Mass in the EF (most seem not too) and chant the Divine Office in Latin (most don't). The religious who frequent the forum are apart of communities who do not.

Most (if not all) of the communities entered by those who use to post on Vocation Station say the Office in English and celebrate Mass in the OF, and even wear a modified form of the habit, which is not wrong or bad.

I think these claims are just unfounded.

It seems like the person posting doesn't approve or look nicely of communities who celebrate Mass in the EF, chant the Office in Latin, and wear the full habit. Looks like they have more bias then those that post on Vocation Station.

Also, we are a universal Church, and not everyone on Vocation Station is from America and there are a number who speak other languages besides English. I think it would be an injustice just to post about communities in America or who speak English.

Edited June 26, 2008 by TotusTuusMaria

[Archaeology cat]

Well, I'd definitely say there are quite a few who prefer the NO over the TLM here, and of course some prefer the TLM over the NO. I sometimes go onto the Vocation Station, even though I'm married, because marriage is also a vocation. One that is sometimes discussed on that board. And I like to learn about various communities, for my own benefit.

[Archaeology cat]

I'm also not sure how something can be too Orthodox.

[Alycin]

I am 19 years old and went to public school and still only consider habited orders. If an order does not wear the habit then I won't consider them. I don't really have a "good reason" but I simply feel drawn to that part of religious life. I think a visible symbol is important.

[Lucy Lionheart]

phatmass likes the CFR's

the CFR's are definatelly not traditional

[Deb]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1583594' date='Jun 26 2008, 02:57 AM']so.. i stumbled on someone's distaste of the majority of the views here, especially those considering religious life in the Vocation Station. hopefully i'm not doing the wrong thing by posting it, so i'm going to post it anonymously.



now we're welcomed to our difference of opinion regarding things that the Church gives us multiple options for, but is it me or can this language not detract others from joining in on one of the most active websites on the internet for young Catholic adults, especially those considering religious life? i guess you can look at it as free advertisement. [/quote]

If this is being written on another supposedly Catholic forum by a Catholic, I really have to wonder about their motives or their faith. I don't think that you are doing the wrong thing posting it. I do think you should tell us where it came from though.

[Lucy Lionheart]

[url="http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=3850686"]http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=3850686[/url]

i googled the first line

i love google

there you have it

[kujo]

[quote name='Deb' post='1583647' date='Jun 26 2008, 09:40 AM']If this is being written on another supposedly Catholic forum by a Catholic, I really have to wonder about their motives or their faith. I don't think that you are doing the wrong thing posting it. I do think you should tell us where it came from though. [/quote]

I don't think it's fair to cast doubt on the faith of the original poster simply because he is dissing Phatmass. I think his views have some credibility, as a lot of people on Phatmass tend to be so overzealous in their faith as to border on uncharity. I've seen some people get ripped to shreds simply for holding an opposing view or for not knowing the definition of a few words. I know that I've been guilty of the occasional wiseguy remark. Yet, whenever we try to have an open discussion about these people, there are those who always seem to fall back on dismissing it because "we are a family, and families fight." Even worse are those who seem so numb to the obvious lack of charity in some debates, saying that Phatmass "has always been like this" or, at times, worse.

I think it's a shame that there are those who, because of their views, feel unwelcome here. Sure, there are those on here who are atheists, Protestants and what have you. But for someone who is discerning religious life to feel attacked by others who are discerning seems a bit askew, ya know?

Anyway, that being said, I love all of you.

[picchick]

I think that phatmass is great in the fact that we have such an awesome mixture of opinions and people who are really knowledgeable in their faith. I cannot tell you how much stuff I learned from coming here.

Nuns are beautiful no matter what they wear because their whole life is dedicated to Christ and I can see that. Updated orders that do not have habits in my book need to wear habits. I have heard every line in the book as to why nuns should not wear habits. However, they are no longer of this world. Their life is dedicated to a higher purpose. They are set apart from God. They should be of this world. The habit is a symbol of this. Poverty, Chastity and Obedience.

I don't visit the vocation station as much. I feel bad that some people felt driven away. However, if you are strong in what you believe in, why would you let people bother you because of their opinion? Were they outcasted by others?
Meg

[Deb]

Nice responses you put out there Johnny. I had to add my own to another issue that guy brought up.
I can't really tell from his posts where he is at. He just seems to shun restrictions. Oh well.

[Lounge Daddy]

Wouldn't a "non-habited" order just be a secular order?

[kujo]

I really don't care how religious want to live their lives. Considering I am not one, and don't feel it is my vocation to become one, I tend to keep my opinions on it to myself.

[puellapaschalis]

Perhaps the author missed the thread where a Dominican nun was "bullied" (my term) by people to such an extent that she left too. Not because she was being liberal but rather because she spoke in favour of things like an age limit to entrance and asking for a candidate's parents' marriage certificate.

People, whether on Phatmass or not, are rottenly rude and hurtful to each other all the dratted time. It doesn't respect whether one is 'ultra-orthodox' or not.

[prose]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1583628' date='Jun 26 2008, 05:29 AM']All phatmass does is talk about how great the Latin Mass is? Haven't we proven that false by now?[/quote]

Yeah, clearly all we do is argue about it.

[curtins]

Is this person suggesting that lay people cannot comment or have an opinion on religious orders?

Theres no such thing as being too orthodox. Theres orthodox and theres unorthodox.

Maybe true orthodoxy is just too much for some people.

Its sad that a place like phatmass that has done so many people so much good in terms of their faith (speaking from experience) is judged and criticized like this.

[kujo]

[quote name='curtins' post='1583905' date='Jun 26 2008, 03:18 PM']Is this person suggesting that lay people cannot comment or have an opinion on religious orders?

Theres no such thing as being too orthodox. Theres orthodox and theres unorthodox.

Maybe true orthodoxy is just too much for some people.

Its sad that a place like phatmass that has done so many people so much good in terms of their faith (speaking from experience) is judged and criticized like this.[/quote]

Wrong. You can absolutely have varying levels of orthodoxy. You can be extremely rank-and-file and then you can also be pretty much rank-and-file...

[Norseman82]

[quote name='curtins' post='1583905' date='Jun 26 2008, 02:18 PM']Is this person suggesting that lay people cannot comment or have an opinion on religious orders?

Theres no such thing as being too orthodox. Theres orthodox and theres unorthodox.

Maybe true orthodoxy is just too much for some people.

Its sad that a place like phatmass that has done so many people so much good in terms of their faith (speaking from experience) is judged and criticized like this.[/quote]

The problem is, though, when individuals take it upon themselves to define what is orthodox even if the Church has not ruled on something.