kujo Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Wow.... Everyone take an el chillo pillo! I think we should learn a second language. Spanish is practical for a lot of us who live in areas heavily populated with Spanish people. I know that I had about 4 different customers come up to me this evening asking if I spoke Spanish. Now, if they honestly can't communicate, I'll do the scherades and stuff. But it's when they speak English just fine but [i]prefer[/i] not to speak it that bothers me. Anyway, God is omnilingual so that's cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy me Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 With all due respect, English is the language of success in this country and in international business. If our immigrants don't learn English, their opportunities will be limited at best. It is not right not to require fluency in English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1606469' date='Jul 23 2008, 06:03 PM']Oh the irony. In Asia, they are gung-ho about learning English. The Koreans love learning English and families who have kids in English classes are considered very respectable. If those kids end up learning the language well enough to attend an American university, that's even better. Japan is jumping on that train, too. Same goes for China and Taiwan. Indians speak excellent English already, as do Filipinos. Switching continents, many parts of Africa (especially in the western and northern nations) teach English in schools right from kindergarten and as a result many Africans are entirely fluent. Lots of Europeans speak English, as do Middle Easterners. So it seems strange that in OUR OWN COUNTRY we are criticized and maligned for expecting immigrants to learn English in America. The irony.[/quote] Many people here know this, but many don't... we had a Russian student living with us for many years (in HS and then while she went to college). Her parents had the wisdom to put their daughters in the English-language school in Russia. Even though the parents don't speak English, they knew that knowing English was going to be useful for the girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1606499' date='Jul 23 2008, 04:13 PM']Because it's not the responsibility of English-speaking Americans to help foreigners "communicate better" in their native language. Let the bilingual Hispanic Americans do that if they want to. It's not my responsibility. And the fact that Hispanics are the largest minority group in the USA on account of the fact that there are 12 million of them here illegally and we're expected to cater to them, THAT is particularly offensive to me. They break the laws of our sovereign nation and we should reward them by "brushing up on Spanish" so they communicate better? I'm ALL for teaching legal residents English--I would love to do that myself, where can I sign up?--but I'm not going to brush up on THEIR language for them.[/quote] You do realize that by knowing their language, you can effectively teach them English faster and better? You think they just come here and magically know how to learn English? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy me Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1607999' date='Jul 24 2008, 10:52 PM']You do realize that by knowing their language, you can effectively teach them English faster and better? You think they just come here and magically know how to learn English?[/quote] I disagree with that. I learned unrelated 2 languages by immersion and if you count English 3. It has more to do with desire and need that anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1607999' date='Jul 24 2008, 09:52 PM']You do realize that by knowing their language, you can effectively teach them English faster and better? You think they just come here and magically know how to learn English?[/quote] I would say that learning a language to communicate with immigrants unwilling to try to learn to communicate in the language of the land is quite different from learning a language to help said immigrants learn the language of the land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1607999' date='Jul 24 2008, 09:52 PM']You do realize that by knowing their language, you can effectively teach them English faster and better? You think they just come here and magically know how to learn English?[/quote] Wrong. You learn a language by LEARNING it, not by having your teacher speak YOUR native language to you while you learn a foreign language. This makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1608239' date='Jul 25 2008, 09:42 AM']Wrong. You learn a language by LEARNING it, not by having your teacher speak YOUR native language to you while you learn a foreign language. This makes no sense.[/quote] Unless of course you come here knowing absolutely no English and people are screaming at you to learn the language or go home, and you're afraid and just wanting to get by. Believe it or not, something as petty as this is not the most important thing to people who just want to get by. You can teach them english and also be willing to help them by also speaking their language for the most important things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 If you've ever spent time in an ESL classroom, you will notice that often times (depending on where you are), you have children from all over the place. Is the ESL teacher supposed to learn all of those languages in order to teach them all English? Or would it be better for him/her to understand the machanics of English, phonics, etc. in order to teach English? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 [quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1608255' date='Jul 25 2008, 09:53 AM']If you've ever spent time in an ESL classroom, you will notice that oftentimes (depending on where you are), you have children from all over the place. Is the ESL teacher supposed to learn all of those languages in order to teach them all English? Or would it be better for him/her to understand the machanics of English, phonics, etc. in order to teach English?[/quote] That's not the same thing. Right now, we seem to have it out for spanish speakers. I don't disagree with the methods that are used by teachers of English. I do disagree, though, that being so hateful towards those who only speak spanish is somehow going to make them want to learn english. My friend's mom is a teacher of ESL and she speaks fluent spanish. Ask her how helpful it is to know spanish in those situations. Sometimes there are other things to take care of besides just teaching english. How would you like it to be in a country where you don't know the language and no one will take the time to communicate with you when you just need help? Sure, they're learning english, but that doesn't mean they can communicate with it yet. So you'd rather just leave them on their own and be cold and unhelping? Sounds Christian to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Not at all. I used to volunteer my free time in high school in the ESL room, I volunteered in the local junior high's ESL room while I was in college. I considered making TESOL (Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages) my major. I minored in Spanish. I know it can be helpful. (though how helpful it would have been in college in an ESL room full of Hmong students is questionable). The point is not all non-English speaking immigrants are Spanish speaking. To suggest that native English speakers learn Spanish to accommodate that particular immigrant group (as Obama was doing in the clip in question) is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 [quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1608270' date='Jul 25 2008, 10:07 AM']Not at all. I used to volunteer my free time in high school in the ESL room, I volunteered in the local junior high's ESL room while I was in college. I considered making TESOL (Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages) my major. I minored in Spanish. I know it can be helpful. (though how helpful it would have been in college in an ESL room full of Hmong students is questionable). The point is not all non-English speaking immigrants are Spanish speaking. To suggest that native English speakers learn Spanish to accommodate that particular immigrant group (as Obama was doing in the clip in question) is ridiculous.[/quote] I agree. However, I think it's a moot point. I don't think Obama was specifically suggesting that everyone learn Spanish. His overall point what that we need to embrace diversity a bit more and be more open to the fact that other cultures and specifically, languages, exist out there. There is nothing wrong with wanting English to be spoken in our country and wanting others to learn it when they come to live here. However, we shouldnt be so against people also speaking other languages. Sometimes I think people here forget that immigrants are people, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 I have no problem with immigrants (or anyone for that matter) speaking whatever language they want in their homes, with their friends and whatnot. What I don't like is immigrants being told that they don't have to learn English. I believe it is in everyone who lives here's best interest to learn English. I understand that older immigrants are probably not going to be able to become proficient in it. I have no problem with immigrants who come here legally to make a better life for themselves and their children. That's what makes this country great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy me Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1608273' date='Jul 25 2008, 12:14 PM']I don't think Obama was specifically suggesting that everyone learn Spanish. His overall point what that we need to embrace diversity a bit more and be more open to the fact that other cultures and specifically, languages, exist out there. There is nothing wrong with wanting English to be spoken in our country and wanting others to learn it when they come to live here. However, we shouldnt be so against people also speaking other languages.[/quote] I am not against learning other languages. Obama did specify Spanish. He used other languages as examples of American ignorance but he did say we should learn Spanish. He did say that they will learn English. But this wouldn't be such a big deal it they were learning English. They aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy me Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 (edited) Double post Edited July 25, 2008 by Mercy me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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