Is It Wrong For Gay/lesbian Couples To Adopt?

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1624127' date='Aug 11 2008, 11:48 AM']1. Well I was referring to myself and others but you know what they say when you assume.

2. Well then anyone who has doubts at all has no business calling them christians? Come on, are you serious? Doubt is human nature. God calls us to him by faith and faith alone. God and Jesus are not phsyically present before us to show the world 1000% that they are real. So because of that, people will have doubts. If anyone who has doubt is not conisdered a catholic, then is anyone good enough to be conisdered a catholic? I think your being a tad bit judgemental.[/quote]
Doubt is [i]not[/i] the same thing as open disagreement.

[havok579257]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1624128' date='Aug 11 2008, 12:48 PM']It depends on the teaching and if its dogma, doctrine  or discipline for most things. But if the Church, Sacred Scripture, and Holy Tradition all say with the authority of God that marriage is between men and women, how can you fail to disagree? How can you think a same sex couple being roommates [ it cannot be called a marriage] having homosex is in anyway comparable to what God has ordained? Where does it say we can disagree on basic fundamental teachings such as this? You might be swayed by all the rhetoric that we are violating a homosexuals rights as if marriage were purely a secular affair, but when is committing a sin a right?But as in the abortion question you brought up how can you follow church teaching that abortion is murder and yet think its ok for people to do it as long as you don't actively help them. This the same as saying its ok to rob a bank as long as I don't help you.[/quote]No, he is saying he has a point of view that is not the same as the church.  Although his point of view is different, he does exactly what the church calls him to do.  He has doubts about what God really wants.  Something everyone has at one point in their life.  I to have doubts that every single thing the church teaches is 100% correct.  Its human nature.  Its called free will.  We are called to God and Jesus by faith.  We were not alive back when Jesus was on earth, so we did not see him in person.  So we are called to him and God via faith in them through the bible.  People have doubts , its part of faith and being human.  He is still as much a catholic as anyone.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1624127' date='Aug 11 2008, 12:48 PM']1. Well I was referring to myself and others but you know what they say when you assume.[/quote]

Well, when you said "Some right here on this board" I found that that strongly implied this thread.

[quote]2. Well then anyone who has doubts at all has no business calling them christians? Come on, are you serious? Doubt is human nature. God calls us to him by faith and faith alone. God and Jesus are not phsyically present before us to show the world 1000% that they are real. So because of that, people will have doubts. If anyone who has doubt is not conisdered a catholic, then is anyone good enough to be conisdered a catholic? I think your being a tad bit judgemental.[/quote]

Did I say that there was anything wrong with doubting? Of course not, doubting is completely natural and [b]hopefully[/b] doubt leads the individual to better learn, understand, and accept the Church's teachings. We're not talking about doubts here. But when it comes to [b]not agreeing with Church teachings[/b] - well, that's a bit more than just doubting, yes?

Could I be a Catholic and [b]not agree with[/b] the Eucharist? No. Can I be a Catholic and [b]doubt[/b] the Real Presence, but strive to understand and believe in it? Yes.

You simply can't pick what parts of Catholic doctrine you believe in, that's really not how it works. "Okay, God, I believe that the Catholic Church is the Truth, but I think you're a bit wrong when it comes to homosexual marriage." No, I'm sorry. You can't do that. That's a contradiction.

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1624148' date='Aug 11 2008, 11:56 AM']  We are called to God and Jesus by faith.  We were not alive back when Jesus was on earth, so we did not see him in person.  So we are called to him and God via faith in them through the bible. [/quote]

We're called by grace, too. And graces abound in the Church. The more we obtain graces, the more we understand and our faith and trust in Christ's Church can blossom.

[mortify]

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."
Leviticus 18:22

[princessgianna]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1601304' date='Jul 16 2008, 05:07 PM']First, I think a child should be raised with both a mom and a dad in the house. We focus a lot on how boys suffer without a male role model, but so do girls. Not having a dad around can mess up a daughter's relationships with men.

Second, I represented many gay clients, male and female, 20+ years ago, and I truthfully never met a happy couple. They were so broken is so many ways. I'm not saying that all hetero couples are perfect paragons of mental health, but they don't automatically start out with strikes against them.

Lastly, having done more divorces than I care to admit, having sometimes 3 or 4 adults involved in child custody is going to turn out some really screwed up kids.[/quote]
Thank you! The last thing we as a world need is more screwed up kids!

[Kitty]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1624149' date='Aug 11 2008, 12:56 PM']You simply can't pick what parts of Catholic doctrine you believe in, that's really not how it works. "Okay, God, I believe that the Catholic Church is the Truth, but I think you're a bit wrong when it comes to homosexual marriage." No, I'm sorry. You can't do that. That's a contradiction.[/quote]

So what are people like me supposed to do then? Just pretend to agree with the teaching? Yeah, like God can't see your true feelings.

Would God rather you lie or speak your true opinion?

I used to be against gay marriage. After leaving high school and interacting with gay people, some with partners, I made my own observations over a long period of time and made my own conclusions and judgements.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Kitty' post='1632460' date='Aug 20 2008, 03:04 AM']So what are people like me supposed to do then? Just pretend to agree with the teaching? Yeah, like God can't see your true feelings.[/quote]

No, you are not expected to "pretend" that you agree. But, you [b]are[/b] expected to learn about this teaching, and you are expected to pray for guidance and understanding. God will shower you with His graces and will help you understand and figure things out, but you [b]must[/b] be open, and you must be listening. Every Catholic doubts some piece of Catholic teaching, and some doubt many! I have done this as well - in fact, back in high school, I saw nothing wrong with homosexual civil unions. I reasoned, "Okay, so as a Catholic I can't recognize it, but why not legally? If two people are in love, what's to stop them?" After doing my research, and swallowing my pride, the light bulb illuminated over my head.

[quote]Would God rather you lie or speak your true opinion?[/quote]

You know the answer to this already. You are not to lie. I am not sure what to make of your "true opinion", however. If you go around and mention in conversation that you are pro-gay marriage [b]and[/b] a practicing Catholic, people might assume that Catholics now approve of homosexual marriage. Thus, if you literally meant "speak" - keep silent. But your opinion is wrong (and I do not mean this as a personal attack) because it is contrary to God's teaching.

[quote]I used to be against gay marriage. After leaving high school and interacting with gay people, some with partners, I made my own observations over a long period of time and made my own conclusions and judgements.[/quote]

Do you believe in the infallibility of the Catholic Church? That the Church teaches the Truth? If yes, then how come you agree with everything else, but not this particular subject? It's a contradiction. You can not believe that the Church has the fullness of Truth, and yet disagree with Her at the same time. On the other hand, if you do not believe in the infallibility of the Church, then you are not Catholic.

[mortify]

[quote name='Kitty' post='1632460' date='Aug 20 2008, 02:04 AM']So what are people like me supposed to do then? Just pretend to agree with the teaching? Yeah, like God can't see your true feelings.[/quote]

God expects you to do the right thing and be obedient. You don't have to understand everything, that comes with time. Think back to when Jesus revealed the mystery of the Eucharist. Many of his followers who believed in Him after the miraculous multiplication of loaves left because they could not UNDERSTAND. What did our Lord say to our Apostles? "And you, do you want to leave as well?" St Peter responded, "Where else can we go, Lord?" Sometimes we must accept.
[quote]Would God rather you lie or speak your true opinion?[/quote]
God prefers you be obedient.

[quote]I used to be against gay marriage. After leaving high school and interacting with gay people, some with partners, I made my own observations over a long period of time and made my own conclusions and judgements.[/quote]
I used to not care about anything until I started trying to live a proper life.

[Kitty]

I see this conversation has become more about me and my being a "real Catholic", so I will stop posting anything in this thread, since I see it is completely pointless to argue any further. I still uphold my opinion, which I guess will send me to hell. Oh well.

[mortify]

[quote name='Kitty' post='1633100' date='Aug 20 2008, 06:44 PM']I see this conversation has become more about me and my being a "real Catholic", so I will stop posting anything in this thread, since I see it is completely pointless to argue any further. I still uphold my opinion, which I guess will send me to hell. Oh well.[/quote]

We all make our own choices.