Christian Persecution In Egypt

[Winchester]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1630946' date='Aug 18 2008, 07:07 PM']And yet, it pigeon holed the poor, and made the rich richer.

You'd want us all fearful peasents, hoping our Lords wouldn't beat us, and use us for their own designs. I like this system a little better, because if I work hard, and have a dream, I can follow it, and elevate my economic standing. I still believe in that system. I am sorry you don't.[/quote]My, we are quick with the accusations, aren't we?

I'll take an apology from you, now.

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1630952' date='Aug 18 2008, 07:09 PM']My, we are quick with the accusations, aren't we?

I'll take an apology from you, now.[/quote]

LOL!

That made me laugh. I figured you for one with a tougher skin than that.

Okay, I apologize for saying you want a system that would crush the hopes and dreams of people everywhere!

[Winchester]

Thank you.

I have quite a thick skin, but your accusations are clumsy and transparent. I've no time to watch you knock down straw men. I'm fond of rhetoric, but your technique is unrefined. Budgelike, if you will. I can make you into a truly effective thread hijacker and kneebiter--my accusatory skills are second to none.

I believe you were using a tertiary source to prove a point. How many other companies that won contracts have politicians in high positions within the company? What made their plans "superior". Mark well that superiority has nothing to do with awarding a contract. A company must be the cheapest one to fill the specs set by the government. This is not done by the president. There are ways to give advantage in this system, of course, and circumvent the intention of having a bidding system. I believe there are even instances in which the bidding system may be entirely done away with. Sometimes, that's a good thing.

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1630979' date='Aug 18 2008, 06:25 PM']Thank you.

I have quite a thick skin, but your accusations are clumsy and transparent. I've no time to watch you knock down straw men. I'm fond of rhetoric, but your technique is unrefined. Budgelike, if you will. I can make you into a truly effective thread hijacker and kneebiter--my accusatory skills are second to none.

I believe you were using a tertiary source to prove a point. How many other companies that won contracts have politicians in high positions within the company? What made their plans "superior". Mark well that superiority has nothing to do with awarding a contract. A company must be the cheapest one to fill the specs set by the government. This is not done by the president. There are ways to give advantage in this system, of course, and circumvent the intention of having a bidding system. I believe there are even instances in which the bidding system may be entirely done away with. Sometimes, that's a good thing.[/quote]

It was a newspaper Article, so I didn't see all the evidence the Journalist had. Maybe, he was just a muckraker, getting one fact and letting it fly. They do that.

But at the same time, doesn't it look like a conflict of interest there. The Vice President's old corporation gets the most contracts, and other corporations didn't. Isn't that wrong?

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1630979' date='Aug 18 2008, 07:25 PM']Thank you.

I have quite a thick skin, but your accusations are clumsy and transparent. I've no time to watch you knock down straw men. I'm fond of rhetoric, but your technique is unrefined. Budgelike, if you will. I can make you into a truly effective thread hijacker and kneebiter--my accusatory skills are second to none.[/quote]

But can you juggle a handful of ice cubes without dropping any of them? See, that's the thing.

[Winchester]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1631004' date='Aug 18 2008, 07:39 PM']It was a newspaper Article, so I didn't see all the evidence the Journalist had. Maybe, he was just a muckraker, getting one fact and letting it fly. They do that.

But at the same time, doesn't it look like a conflict of interest there. The Vice President's old corporation gets the most contracts, and other corporations didn't. Isn't that wrong?[/quote]
So you're basing your assertion on the assumption that a journalist had evidence? Come, now.

It looks like a possible conflict of interest if the Veep was involved in setting the specs or had prior knowledge of them and was a member of the company at the time. Yet again, how many other members of our government have interest in the companies awarded contracts by the government? You do realize that the higher we go in the income levels, the more likely we are to encounter both politicians and business owners, right? You think the other politicians just crapped the money that got them into office, or do you think they got it from....corporations?

It's only wrong if his "old" company didn't meet the specs. How many other companies that didn't get contracts did he have interest in?

[Winchester]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1631008' date='Aug 18 2008, 07:42 PM']But can you juggle a handful of ice cubes without dropping any of them? See, that's the thing.[/quote]
I can't juggle for poo.

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1631018' date='Aug 18 2008, 06:48 PM']So you're basing your assertion on the assumption that a journalist had evidence? Come, now.

It looks like a possible conflict of interest if the Veep was involved in setting the specs or had prior knowledge of them and was a member of the company at the time. Yet again, how many other members of our government have interest in the companies awarded contracts by the government? You do realize that the higher we go in the income levels, the more likely we are to encounter both politicians and business owners, right? You think the other politicians just crapped the money that got them into office, or do you think they got it from....corporations?

It's only wrong if his "old" company didn't meet the specs. How many other companies that didn't get contracts did he have interest in?[/quote]

The paper I read the article from was a National News Paper, there are standards for such things. You have to have documented sources to say the things in it.

I see where you're going with this, corporations and government all work together as one cohesive whole. I don't like it much.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1631020' date='Aug 18 2008, 06:49 PM']I can't juggle for poo.[/quote]

[Winchester]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1631044' date='Aug 18 2008, 08:03 PM']The paper I read the article from was a National News Paper, there are standards for such things. You have to have documented sources to say the things in it.

I see where you're going with this, corporations and government all work together as one cohesive whole. I don't like it much.[/quote]
I'm not doubting the numbers, but the notion that other corporations had "better" plans. It's subjective and vague. The article is tertiary. So you're a skeptic who believes journalists hold to reliarble "standards".


That's going to be especially prevalent in a democratic free market.

[ruso]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1607009' date='Jul 24 2008, 06:44 AM']I have seen several allusions to the persecution of Christians in Egypt by the hands of Muslims. Reading the posts one would get the impression there is widespread systematic persecution of Christians on religious grounds that is not an exception, but the norm.

I haven't had time to investigate the matter. Skimming Human Rights Watch I have not seen much evidence of this. It seems that most issues relating to religious discrimination focuses on Egypts refusing Christians who converted to Islam for the sake of obtaining certain documentation frem reverting to Christianity. It seems that the Egyptian courts have largely ammended this but still make the individuals have their identification note their reversion from Islam which could lead to discrimination.

My point is that I have not been able to find any evidence of widespread, systematic brutal persecution. Does anyone have hard evidence from a respectiable source?

edit-

I do not intend to imply that religious discrimination does not exist in Egypt. I am asking about the allusions that seem to indivate widespread brutal persecution of Egyptian Christians on religious grounds.[/quote]


[url="http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=15931"]http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=15931[/url]

[Balthazor]

In reply to the original post.

As I understand it the persecution of Christians in Egypt is not so much a violent one as a disciminatory one.

From what I gather from my Egyptian friends Christians are second class citizens.

They can't rent apartments in certain parts of the city for example, or they can not get a good job..... It is more like Jim Crow for Christians.

Edited August 23, 2008 by Balthazor