Cohabitation

[tinytherese]

Last year in my theology class in high school somehow we got onto the topic of the marriage of cohabitators. A debate went on about if a priest should marry a couple that was living together, regardless of whether they were being physically intimate with each other or not. Wouldn't it cause scandal for them to be married when they remained in cohabitation? It seems like it would set a bad example to other Catholics.

I don't know why I recently remembered this, but I think it's worth discussing.

Edited July 27, 2008 by tinytherese

[Proud2BCatholic139]

My parents were in an awkward situation back in 1985. Bottom line, our former parish priest, God rest his soul, said that my parents will NOT be married until they change their living situation. (They had my brother out of wedlock.) So, they moved in with my grandma. (my mom's mom.) Cohabitation is a mortal sin, even if one knew that or not. Knowing that one is living in a state of sin, the priest can make that decision whether or not to be a witness to their marriage ceremony.

Some may allow it, some may not. But, cohabitation is not a good idea, because of increases in divorce rates, abortions, use of contraception....etc.

[CatherineM]

I've known priests that require co-habitating couples to separate for a certain length of time before the wedding. Some a couple of days, a couple of weeks or one required 3 months. We were originally married civilly because of Canadian Immigration and our church wedding getting canceled because my in-laws objected to the marriage, and were willing to separate for however long our priest required before our marriage blessing, but he didn't require any. I think he figured we'd been punished enough.

[Farsight one]

It certainly depends on the circumstances of their cohabitation. I can think of a few situations where it might be acceptable. If the choice was between one of them being homeless and living together (but remaining chaste), I'd think they could get a reprieve.

[Brother Adam]

From experience most priests require a period of time that the couple lives separately. If they have children this is usually very short if at all. What is most important is that they understand cohabiting is wrong and repent of their sins and receive the sacrament of penance before he marries them. The last case a couple had two children. The pastor catechized them, they repented and after they received reconciliation he told them that he would marry them the same day if that was their wish - and it was.

[puellapaschalis]

Over here it doesn't make much of a difference, I don't think, although our parish priest will take things case-by-case.

[IrishSalesian]

[quote name='Proud2BCatholic139' post='1610315' date='Jul 27 2008, 10:24 PM']Cohabitation is a mortal sin, even if one knew that or not.[/quote]


Not true. In order for a Mortal Sin to be Mortal, you have to meet three criteria, "Mortal Sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent." <--CCC 1857.

So in order for the sin to be considered Mortal, you need to know that you are commiting a mortal sin. So, if you are cohabiting with you soon to be spouse, and you do not know that it is a sin to do so, then you are not sinning. However, if a priest tells you that you are living in scandal, and you do not change the living arrangments prior to the wedding, then you are living in a state of Mortal Sin.

Not trying to be mean, just correcting an error.


IN Charity,
Adam <Irishsalesian>

Edited July 28, 2008 by IrishSalesian

[Balthazor]

[quote name='IrishSalesian' post='1610462' date='Jul 28 2008, 07:36 AM']Not true. In order for a Mortal Sin to be Mortal, you have to meet three criteria, "Mortal Sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent." <--CCC 1857.

So in order for the sin to be considered Mortal, you need to know that you are commiting a mortal sin. So, if you are cohabiting with you soon to be spouse, and you do not know that it is a sin to do so, then you are not sinning. However, if a priest tells you that you are living in scandal, and you do not change the living arrangments prior to the wedding, then you are living in a state of Mortal Sin.

Not trying to be mean, just correcting an error.
IN Charity,
Adam <Irishsalesian>[/quote]

NICE Catch Irish!


I don't know, I think it really has to do with the situation. It depends on the judgement of the priest and the situation of the couple.

[nowak.chris]

[quote name='IrishSalesian' post='1610462' date='Jul 28 2008, 08:36 AM']Not true. In order for a Mortal Sin to be Mortal, you have to meet three criteria, "Mortal Sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent." <--CCC 1857.

So in order for the sin to be considered Mortal, you need to know that you are commiting a mortal sin. So, if you are cohabiting with you soon to be spouse, and you do not know that it is a sin to do so, then you are not sinning. However, if a priest tells you that you are living in scandal, and you do not change the living arrangments prior to the wedding, then you are living in a state of Mortal Sin.

Not trying to be mean, just correcting an error.
IN Charity,
Adam <Irishsalesian>[/quote]

Actually, you are sinning, and sinning gravely, but less than mortal guilt is imputed, out of ignorance.

[IrishSalesian]

[quote name='nowak.chris' post='1610495' date='Jul 28 2008, 08:41 AM']Actually, you are sinning, and sinning gravely, but less than mortal guilt is imputed, out of ignorance.[/quote]
You may be living in scandal, however, unless you have knowledge, you are not sinning. But in order for the situation to be considered a mortal sin, the person must have full knowledge. A mortal sin is the willful disobeying of God's Law. So you have to have the intent to say, "God, I dont care what you say, I'm going to go ahead and do this anyway." So, you must have the three criteria (mentioned in a previous post) met inorder to have a mortal sin. Those are the criteria, set forth by the Church.

[nowak.chris]

you are not sinning mortally, but CCC 1862 states:"1862 One commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent."

[Aloysius]

it is still a grave sin, but you are not culpable for mortal sin and you may not even be culpable for venial sin depending upon your level of ignorance, in which case you would simply be committing a sin which you are not culpable or blameworthy for... it is still a sin in that the action in and of itself still damages you.

if someone commits suicide but does not have the consent of the will due to suicide, he is not culpable for mortal sin but it was still a sin which caused his death and he will most certainly need to be repaired and purified in purgatory of the damage caused to his soul.

[Proud2BCatholic139]

[quote name='IrishSalesian' post='1610462' date='Jul 28 2008, 06:36 AM']Not true. In order for a Mortal Sin to be Mortal, you have to meet three criteria, "Mortal Sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent." <--CCC 1857.

So in order for the sin to be considered Mortal, you need to know that you are commiting a mortal sin. So, if you are cohabiting with you soon to be spouse, and you do not know that it is a sin to do so, then you are not sinning. However, if a priest tells you that you are living in scandal, and you do not change the living arrangments prior to the wedding, then you are living in a state of Mortal Sin.

Not trying to be mean, just correcting an error.
IN Charity,
Adam <Irishsalesian>[/quote]

What I mean is, it is a mortal sin in the eyes of the church.

Yes, you are right, I guess I was typing too fast, but one who does not know it is a mortal sin, and are told it is a mortal sin, need to leave the situation after they are told it is a sin. Therefore, they are not ignorant of it anymore.

But, it should still be confessed...even if they did not know if it is a mortal sin or not.

[Deb]

I kind of have a hard time imagining that anyone of an age to be cohabitating, who wants to be married in a Catholic church, would not know that they are sinning.

I moved in with my husband when I was 19. We got married at 21 because we were tired of hearing so much about how we were living in sin. We lied to the Priest about our living together because we knew he would not bless our union. We married in 1974.
We put sin upon sin upon sin.

My sister got married in 1990. Her Church refused to let them marry in the sanctuary because they were living together. The priest would allow them to marry in the Chapel. My sis found another church and that Priest allowed them to marry in the sanctuary. Go figure.

[StColette]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1610397' date='Jul 28 2008, 01:01 AM']From experience most priests require a period of time that the couple lives separately. If they have children this is usually very short if at all. What is most important is that they understand cohabiting is wrong and repent of their sins and receive the sacrament of penance before he marries them. The last case a couple had two children. The pastor catechized them, they repented and after they received reconciliation he told them that he would marry them the same day if that was their wish - and it was.[/quote]

Pretty wise priests.

I wish more priests would catechize the couples that come to them that are cohabiting. It has become so common place now that many priests don't even bother with the issue any more.

[Deb]

I know that at my parish there is a minimum of six months of evalutation with the priest prior to him approving the ceremony. People are told they must contact the priest within one year of their wedding date.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Deb' post='1610687' date='Jul 28 2008, 07:31 PM']I know that at my parish there is a minimum of six months of evalutation with the priest prior to him approving the ceremony. People are told they must contact the priest within one year of their wedding date. [/quote]
Our priest actually chose our wedding date for us. We went to see him when we got engaged, and he chose a date for us that was in 7 months' time (and 1 week before Christmas Eve). We had been thinking November, or maybe the beginning of December.

[StColette]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1610703' date='Jul 28 2008, 02:42 PM'](and 1 week before Christmas Eve). We had been thinking November, or maybe the beginning of December.[/quote]

lol Getting married right before or right after Christmas is insane! *thus says the person who got married 3 days after Christmas*

[XIX]

[quote name='Proud2BCatholic139' post='1610628' date='Jul 28 2008, 02:34 PM']What I mean is, it is a mortal sin in the eyes of the church.

Yes, you are right, I guess I was typing too fast, but one who does not know it is a mortal sin, and are told it is a mortal sin, need to leave the situation after they are told it is a sin. Therefore, they are not ignorant of it anymore.

But, it should still be confessed...even if they did not know if it is a mortal sin or not.[/quote]
I think you mean it's a [b]grave[/b] sin in the eyes of the Church.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='StColette' post='1610742' date='Jul 28 2008, 08:31 PM']lol Getting married right before or right after Christmas is insane! *thus says the person who got married 3 days after Christmas*[/quote]
Yes it is! But I loved getting married then, as well. It was nice having the Advent wreath and creche right there.