Is It Safe To Be A Liberal?

[Roamin Catholic]

Title of thread, is the title of the article...

[quote]National, and even international, coverage of the shootings at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Church turned late this week into a discussion into whether it's safe in America to be a liberal.

"One of the biggest contemporary ironies is that being liberal in the United States of America, home of history's greatest democracy, has become dangerous. That danger is particularly acute for religious liberals, as the recent tragedy in Knoxville demonstrated," Bill Maxwell wrote in the St. Petersburg Times.

Ian Williams, writing in The Guardian in London, said "Jim Adkisson, a Tennessee aficionado of conservative talkshows, took their hosts' invective all too literally and shot up a 'liberal' Unitarian Universalist congregation, killing two and wounding six congregants watching a children's musical. Caught up in a world of conservative talk radio, he reportedly expected to be able to carry on shooting unimpeded by the spineless, gay-loving pacifists, and was surprised when they tackled him and brought him down."

The Miami Herald's Leonard Pitts: "No, conservatives did not cause this bloodbath. Jim Adkisson allegedly did. But in telling him 'liberals' were the source of his every disaffection and woe, conservatives certainly validated the hatred and madness that drove him.

"It would be a fitting tribute to those who were lost in Knoxville if this tragedy gave the authors of the ongoing morality play cause for pause -- and reflection. Or is accountability yet another lost conservative value?"[/quote]

Edited August 3, 2008 by Roamin_Catholic

[Winchester]

Maybe liberals should revisit that whole not bearing arms theory.

[aalpha1989]

Honestly I think it's more dangerous to be a conservative.

[Nihil Obstat]

Maybe things are different in Canada... but I see far more liberal media than conservative. The funniest part is that people still think that there's some huge blatant conservative bias. It's ridiculous.

In any case, awful story. It makes me very sad.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1616416' date='Aug 3 2008, 01:05 PM']Honestly I think it's more dangerous to be a conservative. [/quote]

Kind of what I was thinking, too.

[Adrestia]

I think it's dangerous to pigeonhole people into narrow, lame categories.

[Galloglasses]

Am I the only one to notice that some of these self professed liberals are using this Tradgedy to stick it to Conservatives by politicising it? o0

[quote]I think it's dangerous to pigeonhole people into narrow, lame categories.[/quote]
We all fit into Categories, wether we like it or not.

Edited August 3, 2008 by Galloglasses

[dominicansoul]

Suffice it to say, the liberals who wrote this article are using this horrible crime and murdered victims to further their lame cause? All the while generalizing conservatives as gun-toting, homosexual-hating murderers?

[quote]Am I the only one to notice that some of these self professed liberals are using this Tradgedy to stick it to Conservatives by politicising it? o0[/quote]

We think alike! I posted before I had read your post!

Edited August 3, 2008 by dominicansoul

[Roamin Catholic]

its funny, i was watching a local TV show where they were interviewing the pastor/reverand/ whatever he is called this smae question, and even he called it BS....It's nothing more than certain members of the left looking for more reasons to attack the right.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Roamin_Catholic' post='1616239' date='Aug 2 2008, 09:31 PM']Title of thread, is the title of the article...[/quote]
More silly and ridiculous lefty drivel.

One solitary whack-job kills two and wounds six out of all the millions of liberals in this country, and the chattering classes solemnly declare to us that "being a liberal in the United States has become dangerous."

I in no way condone the murderous actions of this madman, but there is no sense of proportion here whatever, simply more of the typical mindless lefty hysteria, and the predictable call that those voicing conservative opinions be held responsible for this act.

I saw this same tripe back in regarding the Oklahoma City bombings in the '90s. Conservative talk-show hosts were blamed, and told to cool their anti-government rhetoric. (Which ironically pales in comparison with the left's current anti-Bush rhetoric.)

These are shameless instances of liberals calling to quell free speech that they happen to disagree with.

Overall, the rhetoric of the Left tends to be far more hateful and violent of the Right, yet you hear little from liberal talking heads calling for lefties to tone down the rhetoric (because, hey [i]that[/i] would restrict free speech!)

And liberals typically scoff at conservatives who link acts of nihilistic violence to violence in the entertainment media.

When Ted Kaczinski (sp?), the "Unabomber," committed acts of violence and terror in the name of a far-left environmentalist philosophy, we heard no chastisement of the environmental movement from the chattering classes.
Apparently, only conservative speech can be responsible for violent acts.

When left-wing violence is committed, only those individuals or a few extremists are blamed, but in the rare occasion when someone is killed out of "right-wing" ideology, all conservative voices are to be held "accountable," and we are warned that being a liberal has become "dangerous."

Edited August 4, 2008 by Socrates

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1616731' date='Aug 3 2008, 10:27 PM']More silly and ridiculous lefty drivel.

One solitary whack-job kills two and wounds six out of all the millions of liberals in this country, and the chattering classes solemnly declare to us that "being a liberal in the United States has become dangerous."

I in no way condone the murderous actions of this madman, but there is no sense of proportion here whatever, simply more of the typical mindless lefty hysteria, and the predictable call that those voicing conservative opinions be held responsible for this act.

I saw this same tripe back in regarding the Oklahoma City bombings in the '90s. Conservative talk-show hosts were blamed, and told to cool their anti-government rhetoric. (Which ironically pales in comparison with the left's current anti-Bush rhetoric.)

These are shameless instances of liberals calling to quell free speech that they happen to disagree with.

Overall, the rhetoric of the Left tends to be far more hateful and violent of the Right, yet you hear little from liberal talking heads calling for lefties to tone down the rhetoric (because, hey [i]that[/i] would restrict free speech!)

And liberals typically scoff at conservatives who link acts of nihilistic violence to violence in the entertainment media.

When Ted Kaczinski (sp?), the "Unabomber," committed acts of violence and terror in the name of a far-left environmentalist philosophy, we heard no chastisement of the environmental movement from the chattering classes.
Apparently, only conservative speech can be responsible for violent acts.

When left-wing violence is committed, only those individuals or a few extremists are blamed, but in the rare occasion when someone is killed out of "right-wing" ideology, all conservative voices are to be held "accountable," and we are warned that being a liberal has become "dangerous."[/quote]
Well said!

[fides quarens intellectum]

where's the pukey smiley when you need it...

[Deb]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1616532' date='Aug 3 2008, 03:42 PM']Suffice it to say, the liberals who wrote this article are using this horrible crime and murdered victims to further their lame cause? All the while generalizing conservatives as gun-toting, homosexual-hating murderers?



We think alike! I posted before I had read your post![/quote]


Suffice to say that conservatives will use this article to trash so called liberals over one newspaper article.
This tragedy was caused by one mentally ill man and no one is responsible for his behavior. One does have to ask however, how many well known conservative radio commentators do not come off as gun-toting, homosexual-hating murderers? If people get on the air and in print with their hate filled rhetoric, it will eventually have consequences, especially in a country where most people live by tv and radio sound bites.
To turn this around to trash liberals is just the expected knee jerk reaction from conservatives who dance with glee for a reason to do so.

So, before I get jumped on this, books found in the shooters home were books written by conservative media personalities. (Savage, Hannity and O'Reilly)
If people are going to go nationwide with comments like, "We've got a bulls-eye painted on Pelosi's bit jovial laughing eye." (Melanie Morgan) or "wishing death to all gay people" and "a solution to the illegal immigration problem, let all Latinos fast until they starve themselves to death," (Michale Savage) or "any member of congress who votes in favor of citizenship for an illegal alien will be declared a domestic enemy and will be considered a legitimate target for assassination." (Hal Turner)
I won't even get into Limbaugh or Coulter because they are too dispicable for anyone to tolerate except the most hatefilled of all conservatives.

When people like this are the ones constantly in the limelight and when they boast of being conservative (and they do us no service when they refer to themselves as Christians) and then spew hate filled rhetoric everywhere, why would anyone be surprised that shootings like this would not come back to be laid at their door?

Look at it this way. Should not judge all people of Muslim faith based on the fundamentalists? No. Should all conservatives be judged based on those who are hate filled and wish destruction on anyone who is not like them? No, but, what comes to many peoples minds when they hear Muslim or Conservative or even Liberal? The worst of the worst. Why? Because those are the people that are out front screaming their hate to the world. Don't be surprised by that.

People in this country may be liberal on one topic and conservative on another. Labeling is done by those who are not able to really break down anything other than a "my way or the highway" mentality, regardless of what end of the spectrum they are on.

Indoctrination takes many forms and for those who are mentally ill, having it pounded into their head every day that some group or some party or some race is responsible for all the ills in their life is going to lead to disaster. Ask yourself where a person is going to hear that kind of rhetoric. Be honest about it too.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Deb' post='1616964' date='Aug 4 2008, 10:37 AM']I won't even get into Limbaugh or Coulter because they are too dispicable for anyone to tolerate except the most hatefilled of all conservatives.[/quote]
I have one book by Anne Coulter...
Despite how ridiculously insane she must be, there are a couple things she said that made sense.
Also, no matter how off her rocker she may be, she's also funny.
Not defending her of course. Plus I'm Canadian, so at least a third of what she said didn't make any sense to me.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1619592' date='Aug 6 2008, 05:19 PM']I have one book by Anne Coulter...
Despite how ridiculously insane she must be, there are a couple things she said that made sense.
Also, no matter how off her rocker she may be, she's also funny.
Not defending her of course. Plus I'm Canadian, so at least a third of what she said didn't make any sense to me. [/quote]
It's not because you're Canadian... a third of what she says just doesn't make sense.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Deb' post='1616964' date='Aug 4 2008, 10:37 AM']Suffice to say that conservatives will use this article to trash so called liberals over one newspaper article.
This tragedy was caused by one mentally ill man and no one is responsible for his behavior. One does have to ask however, how many well known conservative radio commentators do not come off as gun-toting, homosexual-hating murderers? If people get on the air and in print with their hate filled rhetoric, it will eventually have consequences, especially in a country where most people live by tv and radio sound bites.
To turn this around to trash liberals is just the expected knee jerk reaction from conservatives who dance with glee for a reason to do so.[/quote]
Actually, three op-eds were quoted in that article, and there is a general pattern of double-standard in the media when talking about this sort of thing. I remember lots of this "blame Rush" stuff going around after the Oklahoma City bombings in the '90s, which was absolutely ridiculous.

And I've personally heard very few conservative commentators who actually come off as "gun-toting, homosexual-hating murderers." (And, personally, I have nothing against gun-toting, but that is hardly equivalent to being a hate-filled murderer, and I'm not really sure how many conservative pundits tote guns for that matter. Not every one for second-amendment rights is some crazed gun-slinger.)

[quote]So, before I get jumped on this, books found in the shooters home were books written by conservative media personalities. (Savage, Hannity and O'Reilly)
If people are going to go nationwide with comments like, "We've got a bulls-eye painted on Pelosi's bit jovial laughing eye." (Melanie Morgan) or "wishing death to all gay people" and "a solution to the illegal immigration problem, let all Latinos fast until they starve themselves to death," (Michale Savage) or "any member of congress who votes in favor of citizenship for an illegal alien will be declared a domestic enemy and will be considered a legitimate target for assassination." (Hal Turner)
I won't even get into Limbaugh or Coulter because they are too dispicable for anyone to tolerate except the most hatefilled of all conservatives.[/quote]
Have you even actually listened to Rush Limbaugh or Anne Coulter, or any of these other people, other than a few out-of-context and dubious quotes from a liberal source?

Though I haven't for some time, I used to listen to Rush fairly regularly in the '90s, and I've never heard him say anything remotely "hate-filled." If anything, I'd say he's too much of a softy! In fact, I've read some hard-core "paleo-cons" accuse him of being a "purveyor of liberal mush."
I've actually met Anne Coulter, and she's a nice enough lady. Her rhetoric can get a little fiesty, but I'd agree with most of her points about the loony left. Most of what you're quoting sounds like tongue-in-cheek humor to make a point. I've heard much worse from left-leaning "shock jocks, " yet the media rarely calls for them to be silenced.

As for your comment, "I won't even get into Limbaugh or Coulter because they are too dispicable for anyone to tolerate except the most hatefilled of all conservatives," if that same comment were made by a conservative about some liberals, you'd probably decry it as an example of ignorance and hate!

And Sean Hannity isn't really even all that conservative, much less a hate-spewing murderous extremist!

The fact that [i]one[/i] killer happened to have books by Hannity and Savage hardly proves that those commentators [i]cause[/i] violence. I'm sure people who read or listen to conservative commentators are statistically no more violent than the rest of the population. One could probably make a much more convincing case that most killers also listen to rock or rap music, watch Hollywood movies or tv shows, or play video games. I'm sure a number that read even have books by left-wing authors in their bookshelves. (I'm not saying necessarily that any of these things causes murderous violence - simply pointing out the absurdity of this methodology.)

[quote]When people like this are the ones constantly in the limelight and when they boast of being conservative (and they do us no service when they refer to themselves as Christians) and then spew hate filled rhetoric everywhere, why would anyone be surprised that shootings like this would not come back to be laid at their door?

Look at it this way. Should not judge all people of Muslim faith based on the fundamentalists? No. Should all conservatives be judged based on those who are hate filled and wish destruction on anyone who is not like them? No, but, what comes to many peoples minds when they hear Muslim or Conservative or even Liberal? The worst of the worst. Why? Because those are the people that are out front screaming their hate to the world. Don't be surprised by that.

People in this country may be liberal on one topic and conservative on another. Labeling is done by those who are not able to really break down anything other than a "my way or the highway" mentality, regardless of what end of the spectrum they are on.

Indoctrination takes many forms and for those who are mentally ill, having it pounded into their head every day that some group or some party or some race is responsible for all the ills in their life is going to lead to disaster. Ask yourself where a person is going to hear that kind of rhetoric. Be honest about it too.[/quote]
Mentally unstable or immoral people will use anything as an excuse for their violence. Again I've seen no evidence of a general pattern of conservative opinion commentators causing murderous violence.

And comparing folks like Rush Limbaugh to Muslim extremists is just sloppy and absurd.
There's really no mainstream American conservative equivalent to the likes of Al Qaeda or Hamas.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1619827' date='Aug 6 2008, 09:22 PM']And comparing folks like Rush Limbaugh to Muslim extremists is just sloppy and absurd.
There's really no mainstream American conservative equivalent to the likes of Al Qaeda or Hamas.[/quote]

There are American equivalents, but white supremacist groups aren't mainstream, Thank God.

[Deb]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1619827' date='Aug 6 2008, 10:22 PM']Actually, three op-eds were quoted in that article, and there is a general pattern of double-standard in the media when talking about this sort of thing. I remember lots of this "blame Rush" stuff going around after the Oklahoma City bombings in the '90s, which was absolutely ridiculous.

And I've personally heard very few conservative commentators who actually come off as "gun-toting, homosexual-hating murderers." (And, personally, I have nothing against gun-toting, but that is hardly equivalent to being a hate-filled murderer, and I'm not really sure how many conservative pundits tote guns for that matter. Not every one for second-amendment rights is some crazed gun-slinger.)


Have you even actually listened to Rush Limbaugh or Anne Coulter, or any of these other people, other than a few out-of-context and dubious quotes from a liberal source?

Though I haven't for some time, I used to listen to Rush fairly regularly in the '90s, and I've never heard him say anything remotely "hate-filled." If anything, I'd say he's too much of a softy! In fact, I've read some hard-core "paleo-cons" accuse him of being a "purveyor of liberal mush."
I've actually met Anne Coulter, and she's a nice enough lady. Her rhetoric can get a little fiesty, but I'd agree with most of her points about the loony left. Most of what you're quoting sounds like tongue-in-cheek humor to make a point. I've heard much worse from left-leaning "shock jocks, " yet the media rarely calls for them to be silenced.

As for your comment, "I won't even get into Limbaugh or Coulter because they are too dispicable for anyone to tolerate except the most hatefilled of all conservatives," if that same comment were made by a conservative about some liberals, you'd probably decry it as an example of ignorance and hate!

And Sean Hannity isn't really even all that conservative, much less a hate-spewing murderous extremist!

The fact that [i]one[/i] killer happened to have books by Hannity and Savage hardly proves that those commentators [i]cause[/i] violence. I'm sure people who read or listen to conservative commentators are statistically no more violent than the rest of the population. One could probably make a much more convincing case that most killers also listen to rock or rap music, watch Hollywood movies or tv shows, or play video games. I'm sure a number that read even have books by left-wing authors in their bookshelves. (I'm not saying necessarily that any of these things causes murderous violence - simply pointing out the absurdity of this methodology.)


Mentally unstable or immoral people will use anything as an excuse for their violence. Again I've seen no evidence of a general pattern of conservative opinion commentators causing murderous violence.

And comparing folks like Rush Limbaugh to Muslim extremists is just sloppy and absurd.
There's really no mainstream American conservative equivalent to the likes of Al Qaeda or Hamas.[/quote]


So perfectly typical for you. Why don't you show me anything that Coulter has published that is factual, rational and not used to incite hate? I have listened to and read Coulter. I will admit she is funny, only in that she is such a pathetic liar. I really don't want her representing me as a Christian or even as a human being.

[Socrates]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1619850' date='Aug 6 2008, 09:42 PM']There are American equivalents, but white supremacist groups aren't mainstream, Thank God.[/quote]
Let's not forget, though, hate groups in America are not confined to whites, nor to "right-wingers."

Thankfully, though, none of these groups have anything on the scale of radical Islam.

And putting people like Rush Limbaugh in the same category as militant Muslim extremists and neo-Nazis is just ridiculous.

[Jesus_lol]

speaking of double standards... it seems everybody is looking for a scapegoat, public violence blamed on video games; one boy murdering another at school, homosexuality is blamed; a tragic suicide, blamed on black t-shirts and rock music; a terrorist act and suddenly every innocent muslim is blamed; a child is abused, christianity is blamed; repeat ad nauseum.

it seems the both sides are looking a scapegoat, a way to blame every thing on the other guy.

Also, while you are cynically discussing and predicting the liberal media's spin on this story, realize that if the situation was reversed you can be da[i]m[/i]n sure the conservative media would be doing the exact same thing.

also that, upon reading of several innocent people killed, some of you didnt think "oh what a shame" or "gee, that s[i]u[/i]cks for their families", but instead went with "how will this affect me?"

Edited August 8, 2008 by Jesus_lol