Alcohol And Pregnant Women

[MissScripture]

Given that Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS) can occur from any amount drinking (or rather, they don't know how much, and it varies from person to person if the symptoms will appear), do you think expectant mothers should be held accountable (ex: have criminal charges brought against them) if they drink while pregnant? Would your answer change based on if the child did or did not turn out to have FAS?

[CatherineM]

Wow, that's an interesting question. I raised two chemical exposure babies. It isn't easy. When I was pregnant myself, I was so careful about everything. I never read a toothpaste label before then. With the exception of the time before you realize you're pregnant, I can't image putting anything in your mouth or lungs that could harm the baby.

The lawyer in me though, says that you can't prosecute unless the mother should have known of the danger (should have known she was pregnant, and that the substance could harm the baby), and was culpable for her actions. Plus, I think the baby would have to be born with FAS or addicted to an opiate for example, in order to prove harm.

The biggest problem with this, is that it could lead down two different paths that Americans are probably not going to agree to go. The first would be if you can be prosecuted for FAS, then you could potentially prosecute if a mother didn't eat right, or take pre-natal vitamins or smoked and produced a low birth weight baby. The other path would be that doing any harm to an unborn baby could be actionable, and that would intersect with abortions.

What I'd like to see is the parents of children born with these problems be financially responsible for any and all future special education or treatment.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1616725' date='Aug 3 2008, 10:17 PM']Wow, that's an interesting question. I raised two chemical exposure babies. It isn't easy. When I was pregnant myself, I was so careful about everything. I never read a toothpaste label before then. With the exception of the time before you realize you're pregnant, I can't image putting anything in your mouth or lungs that could harm the baby.

The lawyer in me though, says that you can't prosecute unless the mother should have known of the danger (should have known she was pregnant, and that the substance could harm the baby), and was culpable for her actions. Plus, I think the baby would have to be born with FAS or addicted to an opiate for example, in order to prove harm.

The biggest problem with this, is that it could lead down two different paths that Americans are probably not going to agree to go. The first would be if you can be prosecuted for FAS, then you could potentially prosecute if a mother didn't eat right, or take pre-natal vitamins or smoked and produced a low birth weight baby. The other path would be that doing any harm to an unborn baby could be actionable, and that would intersect with abortions.

What I'd like to see is the parents of children born with these problems be financially responsible for any and all future special education or treatment.[/quote]
I was thinking about this because the topic came up on a Law and Order: SVU episode, and the lawyer in that said basically what you were saying in the problems with it. Although, smoking can do more damage than just a low birth-weight, so I'm not sure I'd throw it in with not taking pre-natal vitamins.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1616754' date='Aug 4 2008, 01:01 AM']I was thinking about this because the topic came up on a Law and Order: SVU episode, and the lawyer in that said basically what you were saying in the problems with it. Although, smoking can do more damage than just a low birth-weight, so I'm not sure I'd throw it in with not taking pre-natal vitamins.[/quote]

Haha. You know, I read this thread, was thinking about it... then went downstairs and turned on Law and Order, which happened to be this episode. I thought it was ironic that it was about this. Now I see it wasn't happenchance after all!

I'm still unsure on this issue, though.

[CatherineM]

I don't get to watch Law and Order. We don't get that channel. We don't have cable. Even if we did, my husband doesn't like those kinds of shows.

[Nihil Obstat]

I wonder if there's a middle way? Obviously one can't go around prosecuting mothers for having babies that happen to be unhealthy, but maybe there could be certain things that doctors have to check on at examinations during pregnancy? I don't know how any of that would work of course, but maybe it's possible.

[Archaeology cat]

Rules regarding drinking in pregnancy vary a lot from country to country. In France I heard the restriction is simply no more than 1 glass of wine per meal. Here they changed it twice while I was pregnant! (It had been that you were allowed to drink 1 drink a day, then changed to none at all, then back to 1 a day)

But the general consensus I read & heard from doctors was that, as long as you aren't drinking more than you normally do (and a little less is good, to be on the safe side), it's probably alright. It's when you drink more than your body is used to metabolising that problems are more likely.

Of course, I've heard that many women are turned off to alcohol when pregnant. I was towards the end, because it gave me horrible heartburn (as did everything else). I did drink some during my pregnancy, but not much at all. Most of it was prior to knowing I was pregnant, with the occasional glass of wine or sip of beer later.

[Justin86]

One pregnant woman I know told me her OB told her it was actually good for her to have some whiskey every now and then. Anyone here with more medical knowledge then myself know why she would be told that?

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1616890' date='Aug 4 2008, 02:49 PM']One pregnant woman I know told me her OB told her it was actually good for her to have some whiskey every now and then. Anyone here with more medical knowledge then myself know why she would be told that?[/quote]
I don't know really. I've never heard that (though I do love whiskey). My GP just told me it was alright as long as I wasn't drinking more than normal, and preferably slightly less than normal.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1616890' date='Aug 4 2008, 08:49 AM']One pregnant woman I know told me her OB told her it was actually good for her to have some whiskey every now and then. Anyone here with more medical knowledge then myself know why she would be told that?[/quote]
I've heard that once before. Well, actually, I think I heard wine, but alcohol at any rate. I'm not sure. I think the prohibition of pregnant women drinking alcohol is that they don't really know a whole lot about FAS.

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1616905' date='Aug 4 2008, 09:31 AM']I don't know really. I've never heard that (though I do love whiskey). My GP just told me it was alright as long as I wasn't drinking more than normal, and preferably slightly less than normal.[/quote]
I could see that, although, I would think that if someone was a heavy drinker, drinking slightly less than normal might still affect the baby.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1616912' date='Aug 4 2008, 03:39 PM']I've heard that once before. Well, actually, I think I heard wine, but alcohol at any rate. I'm not sure. I think the prohibition of pregnant women drinking alcohol is that they don't really know a whole lot about FAS.
I could see that, although, I would think that if someone was a heavy drinker, drinking slightly less than normal might still affect the baby. [/quote]
I think there was a caveat to that, as well, that the upper limit would then be 1-2 drinks per week, each of 1-2 units (alcohol is generally measured in units here). I forgot to add that. Because yeah, if a woman is a heavy drinker, I doubt drinking only slightly less would help much.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Archaeology cat

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1616914' date='Aug 4 2008, 09:40 AM']I think there was a caveat to that, as well, that the upper limit would then be 1-2 drinks per week, each of 1-2 units (alcohol is generally measured in units here). I forgot to add that. Because yeah, if a woman is a heavy drinker, I doubt drinking only slightly less would help much.[/quote]
Okay, that makes more sense.
I probably won't go anywhere near it when/if I'm pregnant, because I'll be so paranoid!

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1616916' date='Aug 4 2008, 03:42 PM']Okay, that makes more sense.
I probably won't go anywhere near it when/if I'm pregnant, because I'll be so paranoid![/quote]
I was horrified at first when I learnt I was pregnant because I was thinking of the margaritas I'd had earlier in the pregnancy. I don't drink all that much usually, perhaps a shot of whiskey or a glass of wine with dinner a couple days a week, so while pregnant I think I had maybe 2 or 3 glasses of wine. Everything gave me heartburn, so I tended to stay away from it.

[picchick]

Fetal Alcohol Syndrome occurs primarily in the first trimester as the baby is just forming. So this could come from mom's who don't realize they're pregnant and they just binge drink or whatnot.

I am totally against drinking in any trimester. However, I don't think that we can hold all women accountable for this if they truly did not know and it was "too late". Alcoholics I think should be held accountable, though. Yes, I understand that it is an addiction and that they need help. However, if they were to drive drunk and killed someone they would be accountable for their actions.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='picchick' post='1616920' date='Aug 4 2008, 09:48 AM']Fetal Alcohol Syndrome occurs primarily in the first trimester as the baby is just forming. So this could come from mom's who don't realize they're pregnant and they just binge drink or whatnot.

I am totally against drinking in any trimester. However, I don't think that we can hold all women accountable for this if they truly did not know and it was "too late". Alcoholics I think should be held accountable, though. Yes, I understand that it is an addiction and that they need help. However, if they were to drive drunk and killed someone they would be accountable for their actions.[/quote]
I think I see what you're saying, but alcoholics aren't the only people who drive drunk, so I don't think it would go over to hold only them accountable for FAS.

Edited August 4, 2008 by MissScripture

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1616919' date='Aug 4 2008, 09:47 AM'] I was horrified at first when I learnt I was pregnant because I was thinking of the margaritas I'd had earlier in the pregnancy. I don't drink all that much usually, perhaps a shot of whiskey or a glass of wine with dinner a couple days a week, so while pregnant I think I had maybe 2 or 3 glasses of wine. Everything gave me heartburn, so I tended to stay away from it. [/quote]
I'm probably just going to be paraonid in general, thinking "what if I am pregnant!" My mother probably won't help at all with the paranoia and just feed it. Not that I can blame her, though...I'll be the third child getting married and she doesn't have any grandkids yet, and she knows I want kids. My mom has already told me that when James and I get married, I have first dibs on the healthy food, because I could get pregnant.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1616942' date='Aug 4 2008, 04:18 PM']I'm probably just going to be paraonid in general, thinking "what if I am pregnant!" My mother probably won't help at all with the paranoia and just feed it. Not that I can blame her, though...I'll be the third child getting married and she doesn't have any grandkids yet, and she knows I want kids. My mom has already told me that when James and I get married, I have first dibs on the healthy food, because I could get pregnant. [/quote]
I know what you mean! To be honest, I didn't care as much about the alcohol, but I really wanted to be able to eat Brie when I was pregnant.

[CatherineM]

Some researchers are recommending that all women of child bearing years, eat and treat their bodies as being pregnant since they could be at any time. Having proper levels of folic acid in the body, when you become pregnant, and for the first 3 months, they think can greatly reduce the chance of your child having spina bifida, those weird childhood cancers, and the development of schizophrenia later. They have looked at the first three months of gestation, but now are starting to look at the affect of how you treat your body before becoming pregnant as well, and they are finding it makes a difference too.

[StColette]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1617058' date='Aug 4 2008, 01:10 PM']Some researchers are recommending that all women of child bearing years, eat and treat their bodies as being pregnant since they could be at any time. Having proper levels of folic acid in the body, when you become pregnant, and for the first 3 months, they think can greatly reduce the chance of your child having spina bifida, those weird childhood cancers, and the development of schizophrenia later. They have looked at the first three months of gestation, but now are starting to look at the affect of how you treat your body before becoming pregnant as well, and they are finding it makes a difference too.[/quote]

I know the embryology professor at FUS (he's been teaching embryology for 40 years lol) suggested to take pre-natal vitamins to increase fertility lol

[StColette]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1616942' date='Aug 4 2008, 11:18 AM']I'm probably just going to be paraonid in general, thinking "what if I am pregnant!" My mother probably won't help at all with the paranoia and just feed it. Not that I can blame her, though...I'll be the third child getting married and she doesn't have any grandkids yet, and she knows I want kids. My mom has already told me that when James and I get married, I have first dibs on the healthy food, because I could get pregnant. [/quote]


lol I wasn't paranoid at all. I did happen to have one glass of red wine right after the little one was conceived. It was Valentine's Day and Micah cooked an awesome dinner, and I love wine so... I felt horrible after the fact when I found out I was already a week pregnant when I drank that glass of wine. lol The doctor as well as many others reassured me that everything was fine.


Oh and I did have a tiny sip of pink champagne to celebrate my college graduation.