Friday Penance

[Resurrexi]

Obviously this thread is intended for people living in the US, where the USCCB has decided that on non-Lenten Fridays the faithful may substitute abstinence from meat for another penance. If you live in another area, apply your bishops' conference's rules on non-Lenten abstinence to this poll.

[aalpha1989]

I was not really sure whether to vote for mortally sinful or venially sinful. I went with venially sinful because i am not sure that it is grave matter and also because almost no one knows that penance is still required, and therefore it does not (in most cases, at least) fulfill the conditions of mortal sin.

Edited August 4, 2008 by aalpha1989

[StColette]

Others may find this article interesting

[url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0501bt.asp"]Is Friday Penance Required?[/url]

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1617173' date='Aug 4 2008, 01:43 PM']I was not really sure whether to vote for mortally sinful or venially sinful. I went with venially sinful because i am not sure that it is grave matter and also because almost no one knows that penance is still required, and therefore it does not (in most cases, at least) fulfill the conditions of mortal sin.[/quote]

By making a poll though, I'm talking about the action objectively, not subjectively

[quote name='StColette' post='1617182' date='Aug 4 2008, 01:52 PM']Others may find this article interesting

[url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0501bt.asp"]Is Friday Penance Required?[/url][/quote]

I wonder if anyone else remembers Aloysius' response to this article...

[StColette]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1617187' date='Aug 4 2008, 04:03 PM']I wonder if anyone else remembers Aloysius' response to this article...[/quote]

Vaguely lol

[TeresaBenedicta]

Gah. I nulled my vote to see what others are saying, because I haven't the slightest.

I *know* there's a Friday penance, but I often forget when Friday rolls around. It was never anything they taught us in RCIA, so I didn't find out about it until later on. Since then I've had a difficulty implementing anysort of penance whatsoever. Partly due to laziness, partly do to forgetfulness.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1617187' date='Aug 4 2008, 04:03 PM']I wonder if anyone else remembers Aloysius' response to this article...[/quote]

Link?

Thanks for the article, stc. it was informative. I would like to see aloysius' response, though...

[StColette]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1617193' date='Aug 4 2008, 04:06 PM']Link?

Thanks for the article, stc. it was informative. I would like to see aloysius' response, though...[/quote]

I believe this is the thread [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=62137&view=findpost&p=1147470"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...t&p=1147470[/url]

[Deb]

I hate to admit I know virtually nothing about this. In RCIA I was just told I could not eat meat on Fridays during lent or on Holy Days of obligation. I just picked up a book on fasting. I guess I should get moving and read it.
We could never eat meat on Friday when I was growing up. When I returned to the church, everybody said we could. Hmmm. Methinks some things were missing from my RCIA.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Deb' post='1617206' date='Aug 4 2008, 03:24 PM']I hate to admit I know virtually nothing about this. In RCIA I was just told I could not eat meat on Fridays during lent or on Holy Days of obligation. I just picked up a book on fasting. I guess I should get moving and read it.
We could never eat meat on Friday when I was growing up. When I returned to the church, everybody said we could. Hmmm. Methinks some things were missing from my RCIA.[/quote]
We can't eat meat on Holy Days of Obligation?

[Archaeology cat]

In general we don't have meat. I don't even know what the Bishop's Conference of England & Wales requires, to be honest, though I don't think there's a requirement regarding meat on Fridays outside of Lent. Anyway, if we do have meat, then I try to make sure I do something else, though it doesn't always happen, unfortunately.

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1617207' date='Aug 4 2008, 09:25 PM']We can't eat meat on Holy Days of Obligation?[/quote]
Yeah, that's news to me.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1147505' date='Dec 22 2006, 05:51 PM']the problem with this interpretation is: the code of canon law gives bishops conferences the competency to offer some other penance NOT to say no penance at all is required. the USCCB does not have the authority to say "no one has to do anything on Friday" and, with that in mind, it is clear that that's not what they said. in exhorting people to replace it with some other penance, they followed their canonical place in giving a replacement penance. they did not have the authority to make nothing required, only the authority to offer something else. they did: they offered other options (basically do anything special you can blah blah blah ambiguity ambiguity ambiguity) and those options hold the force of law as replacements to the universal requirement of abstinence from meat.

the USCCB did not bind us under force of law, they offered ambiguous replacements which fit into canon 1251 as obligations.

"determine more precisely" does not cover complete abrogation of obligation. they can make it not a mortal sin not to do it, sure that would determine more precisely. but saying there is no obligation whatsoever is not "determining more precisely".

so while the Bishops of the US exhort us but do not bind us, the universal code of canon law DOES bind us to do what they exhort us to do. whatever the bishops' intentions, they do not have the canonical authority to completely abrogate any obligation on fridays. all Latin Catholics by universal law are required to have some sort of obligation for fridays.[/quote]

Makes sense to me.

[Deb]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1617207' date='Aug 4 2008, 04:25 PM']We can't eat meat on Holy Days of Obligation?[/quote]


I am pretty sure there is a symbol of a fish on my calendar that kind of guides me as to when I should be doing what. If I am wrong, please let me know.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1617207' date='Aug 4 2008, 04:25 PM']We can't eat meat on Holy Days of Obligation?[/quote]

yeah, we can.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1617207' date='Aug 4 2008, 02:25 PM']We can't eat meat on Holy Days of Obligation?[/quote]

Yep

Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, [b]unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday[/b]. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1617222' date='Aug 4 2008, 09:34 PM']Yep

Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, [b]unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday[/b]. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.[/quote]
Thanks - I was looking for something about that. Should have just searched the CCC.

[Deb]

Thanks. Wonder what half a fish means on the calendar?

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Deb' post='1617216' date='Aug 4 2008, 03:30 PM']I am pretty sure there is a symbol of a fish on my calendar that kind of guides me as to when I should be doing what. If I am wrong, please let me know. [/quote]
It doesn't have that on my Twins calendar. But, yeah, those calendars are nice, especially when you randomly look at one and realize the next day you need to go to Mass and your entire family would've forgotten, otherwise.

[Majella]

[quote name='Deb' post='1617206' date='Aug 5 2008, 09:24 AM']I hate to admit I know virtually nothing about this. In RCIA I was just told I could not eat meat on Fridays during lent or on Holy Days of obligation. I just picked up a book on fasting. I guess I should get moving and read it.
We could never eat meat on Friday when I was growing up. When I returned to the church, everybody said we could. Hmmm. Methinks some things were missing from my RCIA.[/quote]

Of course you can eat meat on Holy Days of Obligation! They are major feastdays in the Church, and we usually have an especially nice meal to celebrate them!RCIA seems to get a lot of things wrong; I was told incense used during Mass had the purpose of hiding the bad smell of the priest; the rosary was invented to keep dumb people occupied;etc,etc. Since going to the traditional Mass, I've learned a lot and now I appreciate the reasons for the Friday Abstinance and much more!
But to say eating meat on Fridays is a mortal sin is a bit over the top.There are 3 conditions that need to be fulfilled for a sin to be mortal: first, the thought,desire,word,action or omission must be seriously wrong or considered seriously wrong; second, the sinner must know it is seriously wrong; third,the sinner must fully consent to it.

[Aloysius]

glad someone dragged up my post so I didn't have to respond to Akin's artical again. as I understand it, in the US it is venially sinful not to do some type of penance on all fridays throughout the year. this is because the universal law requires penance and the local bishops' conference has the authority to alter the level of requirement and offer replacements. the USCCB has definitely loosened the level of requirement and allowed for basically anything as a replacement, but we are still bound by the requirement of the universal law, just not bound as tightly as we could be.