Bad Catholic

[XIX]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1630421' date='Aug 18 2008, 11:51 AM']I don't think it was Balthazor or anyone's intent to demean or insult full-time mothers, nor should anyone assume that she isn't doing any soul searching or praying for vocational guidance. I thought she was just being honest about her fears and seeking advice regarding her conflicted state. [/quote]
iawtc.


iRRRawtc.

[prose]

The thing is, that being scared of being a mother is probably a GOOD sign.

To be fair, stay at home mom's can be just a vicious as working moms. I have been attacked SEVERAL times about how I can leave my kids with a stranger during the day, or how I can be away from them so much. The reason? Because I needed to work at that time.

Stay at home moms are constantly being attacked with "where is the 'real' you?" "What are you going to do when your kids grow up?".

It is sort of a fact of life.

Frankly, in our society, we are bred to be fearful of motherhood. We are taught that it is a great thing, as long as it happens sometime in your thirties after you have a house and career. This is ridiculous.

Don't feel bad about being unsure of marriage and motherhood. You have not met your husband, and you are not pregnant. God softens our hearts as we need. Just keep praying

[Ash Wednesday]

Well said, prose.




By the way, you have a baby falling down the stairs.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1630421' date='Aug 18 2008, 08:51 AM']I don't think it was Balthazor or anyone's intent to demean or insult full-time mothers, nor should anyone assume that she isn't doing any soul searching or praying for vocational guidance. I thought she was just being honest about her fears and seeking advice regarding her conflicted state. [/quote]
+J.M.J.+
ditto.

balty, i can honestly say i was in the same boat. i didn't want kids before i was married. i really didn't. i figured i would just screw them up, and be an awful parent. but you know what? God was working on me, because once i got married, i wanted to share the love that i had for my spouse with the whole world, and with a child. i'm not saying i waved a magic wand and it happened, but by God's help it happened.

just pray, and pray some more, and go to Confession and get your soul all clean and shiny. (it's a lot easier to make decisions when your soul is spotless!)

God bless you!

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

When one speaks of motherhood of this thing where you no longer have a good figure, or you have to give up your career, and so on and so forth, that is very demeaning to all who are called to this vocation.

As I said before, it's not what one looks like (although that is how our world would like us to believe), but rather who a person is inside, and the way the love, that determines a person's worth.

Are all women cut out for marriage and children, no, but then those who are not cut out to be mothers, need to seriously consider consecrated life. We are called to serve God, and as women we have two basic choices: Serve God through wifehood and motherhood, or serve him through being consecrated and living a holy single life devoted to God.

The reasons stated were mostly based on one's appearance. The post indicated that mothers are no longer thin and have to have stretch marks and so on and so forth.

Do I have stretch marks? No, I have beauty from childbirth. Take into consideration that it is stated that women are saved through childbirth.

What's a career? A career is something one does for a living. I went from one career to a different one.

So much of what has been stated in this thread by many is the worldly outlook on motherhood and beauty and what success is.

Let's take a moment to step back and view motherhood in the sense that it is to be viewed, the Catholic view.

Mary, our Blessed Mother, was just that, a mother. Did they worry about stretch marks or having to leave their careers? No. It was a blessing back then to be a mother, so why is it no longer viewed that way by society, and unfortunately many Catholics?

Mothers are too often thought of as irresponsible women who are plaguing society with more people. That their children are brats, when in reality the child is trying to learn how to be a person. Children have it as hard as mothers do. Children are simply trying to learn how to live, and mothers are simply trying to learn how to guide their children in that learning process.


Who gives a rip about whether or not a woman has stretch marks from pregnancies? Who should care? Why does it matter unless we're going to be going around in public in bikinis, and aren't bikinis a bit clad and a bit immodest when you think about it?

A father who's wife has stretch marks from the carrying and birthing of their children finds their wife all the more attractive, because of the stretch marks. She gave him a little person who is a mixture of the two of them.

I'm simply asking that if you're not wanting to be part of any vocation, then step back and reevaluate why that is. Plain and simple, each vocation calls for a sacrifice of our selves. If we're not willing to sacrifice ourselves, then there are deeper issues we need to deal with.

Am I perfect? Far from it. I'm so imperfect that weekly, if not daily confessions, would be best for my soul. But I know one thing is for sure, mothers have taken too bad of a rap for what they are for too long.

[picchick]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1630428' date='Aug 18 2008, 10:59 AM']By the way, you have a baby falling down the stairs.[/quote]

Ok this made my day.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' post='1630441' date='Aug 18 2008, 09:07 AM']When one speaks of motherhood of this thing where you no longer have a good figure, or you have to give up your career, and so on and so forth, that is very demeaning to all who are called to this vocation.[/quote]it's not demeaning to me. balty is sharing her concerns, and being honest, and asking the phamily for help. why can't she do that? i'd rather her be honest about her concerns and that way we can help address them.

[quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' post='1630441' date='Aug 18 2008, 09:07 AM']Take into consideration that it is stated that women are saved through childbirth.[/quote]say what? what Church teaching do you get this from?

[quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' post='1630441' date='Aug 18 2008, 09:07 AM']So much of what has been stated in this thread by many is the worldly outlook on motherhood and beauty and what success is.

Let's take a moment to step back and view motherhood in the sense that it is to be viewed, the Catholic view.[/quote]
wow, i think you missed several posts, like:
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=83736&view=findpost&p=1628848"]this one[/url]
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=83736&view=findpost&p=1628898"]this one[/url]
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=83736&view=findpost&p=1628914"]this one[/url]
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=83736&view=findpost&p=1629099"]this one[/url]
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=83736&view=findpost&p=1629060"]this one[/url]
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=83736&view=findpost&p=1629117"]this one[/url]
those are just the ones on the first page. are you sure you read this thread?

and thanks for insinuating that much that has been stated by Catholic people in this thread hasn't been the Catholic view.

[Winchester]

Bad Catholic! No alcohol!

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

Red:

1 Timothy 2:15

[quote]Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.[/quote]

Unless we no longer listen to the church fathers.

[XIX]

Demeaning: "Catholics worship Mary!!1 Only Jesus saves. Mary is just a false god. This Jack Chick comic explains everything!!!1!!11"

Not demeaning: "I wish I was a better Catholic, but I just don't understand the whole devotion to Mary thing. It just seems like way too much prayer directed towards a mortal."


likewise:

Demeaning: "Motherhood is icky. Strechmarks and you lose your figure, and your career. I might have 2.2 kids, but I want a career and a house before all of that.

::gasp::

Are those ALL YOURS?!?!?!?!?//"

Not demeaning: "I am not really sure what to do about this...... I am torn. I really enjoy working and studying..... I really hate domestic life.... picking up after kids, cleaning, so on....
But I do not want to be alone forever......" (especially not demeaning in the context of the rest of this discussion.)

[XIX]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1630428' date='Aug 18 2008, 11:59 AM']By the way, you have a baby falling down the stairs.[/quote]
iawtc.

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
[quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' post='1630468' date='Aug 18 2008, 09:48 AM']Red:

1 Timothy 2:15

[b]Unless we no longer listen to the church fathers.[/b][/quote]
thanks for the Scripture reference. but what's with the snarky comment?

[quote name='XIX' post='1630480' date='Aug 18 2008, 09:59 AM']Demeaning: "Catholics worship Mary!!1 Only Jesus saves. Mary is just a false god. This Jack Chick comic explains everything!!!1!!11"

Not demeaning: "I wish I was a better Catholic, but I just don't understand the whole devotion to Mary thing. It just seems like way too much prayer directed towards a mortal."

likewise:

Demeaning: "Motherhood is icky. Strechmarks and you lose your figure, and your career. I might have 2.2 kids, but I want a career and a house before all of that.

::gasp::

Are those ALL YOURS?!?!?!?!?//"

Not demeaning: "I am not really sure what to do about this...... I am torn. I really enjoy working and studying..... I really hate domestic life.... picking up after kids, cleaning, so on....
But I do not want to be alone forever......" (especially not demeaning in the context of the rest of this discussion.)[/quote]
awesome post!

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

You asked about Catholic teaching.

One can be demeaning and nice at the same time.

I will no longer humor your responses as I have contacted those individuals with whom my 'gripe' was with.

I also now remember why I don't frequent Phatmass like I did.

God Bless you.

Edited August 18, 2008 by Mrs. Bro. Adam

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' post='1630504' date='Aug 18 2008, 10:23 AM']You asked about Catholic teaching.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
never mind. i'm being snarky today. and i'd rather not dialogue with you when i'm snarky.

[picchick]

[quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' post='1630504' date='Aug 18 2008, 12:23 PM']One can be demeaning and nice at the same time.[/quote]


I really don't know how that can be. Demean means to lower in dignity, honor, or standing. To me, it sounds disrespectful.

[StColette]

Just a little enlightenment about the verse 1 Tim 2:15

Ver. 12. St. Paul only means in public. See note on ver. 11. of the next chapter. It would appear from this regulation of the apostle, as well as from the writings of the earliest fathers, that the practice and condemnation of women interfering at all in spiritual affairs, in not new. Tertullian says: We do not permit a woman to teach, to baptize, or to arrogate to herself any part of the duty which belongs to man. (De Veland. Virg. cap. 9.) --- The woman has tried once to teach, when she persuaded Adam to eat the forbidden fruit, and has wofully failed. Let her now be content to remain in silence, and subjection to man; (St. Chrysostom on this place) as appears also from the order of the creation. See ver. 13. Seduction began with Eve, a subject of profound humiliation for women; but this ought not to deprive them of confidence in God's mercy, nor take from them the hope of salvation. (Bible de Vence)

Ver. 13-14. Adam was first formed....and was not seduced. That is, was not at least seduced first, as the woman. (Witham)

Ver. 15. She shall be saved by bearing children, &c. and performing other duties of a wife, with a due submission to her husband, taking care to serve God, and bring up her children in the faith of Christ, in piety, &c. (Witham) --- This would perhaps be more properly rendered, from the Greek, by the bringing up of her children in faith, charity, and holiness. This is the duty of the woman; upon the faithful discharge or neglect of which she must expect her salvation, or reprobation, to hang. Thus repairing the evil which the first of all women brought upon man, by seducing him to evil. (Bible de Vence)

*hopes she doesn't get her head bitten off*

[Lil Red]

[quote name='StColette' post='1630516' date='Aug 18 2008, 10:36 AM']Just a little enlightenment about the verse 1 Tim 2:15

Ver. 12. St. Paul only means in public. See note on ver. 11. of the next chapter. It would appear from this regulation of the apostle, as well as from the writings of the earliest fathers, that the practice and condemnation of women interfering at all in spiritual affairs, in not new. Tertullian says: We do not permit a woman to teach, to baptize, or to arrogate to herself any part of the duty which belongs to man. (De Veland. Virg. cap. 9.) --- The woman has tried once to teach, when she persuaded Adam to eat the forbidden fruit, and has wofully failed. Let her now be content to remain in silence, and subjection to man; (St. Chrysostom on this place) as appears also from the order of the creation. See ver. 13. Seduction began with Eve, a subject of profound humiliation for women; but this ought not to deprive them of confidence in God's mercy, nor take from them the hope of salvation. (Bible de Vence)

Ver. 13-14. Adam was first formed....and was not seduced. That is, was not at least seduced first, as the woman. (Witham)

Ver. 15. She shall be saved by bearing children, &c. and performing other duties of a wife, with a due submission to her husband, taking care to serve God, and bring up her children in the faith of Christ, in piety, &c. (Witham) --- This would perhaps be more properly rendered, from the Greek, by the bringing up of her children in faith, charity, and holiness. This is the duty of the woman; upon the faithful discharge or neglect of which she must expect her salvation, or reprobation, to hang. Thus repairing the evil which the first of all women brought upon man, by seducing him to evil. (Bible de Vence)

*hopes she doesn't get her head bitten off*[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
thanks st. colette.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' post='1630504' date='Aug 18 2008, 10:23 AM']You asked about Catholic teaching.

One can be demeaning and nice at the same time.

I will no longer humor your responses as I have contacted those individuals with whom my 'gripe' was with.

I also now remember why I don't frequent Phatmass like I did.

God Bless you.[/quote]


[quote name='Lil Red' post='1630505' date='Aug 18 2008, 10:24 AM']+J.M.J.+
never mind. i'm being snarky today. and i'd rather not dialogue with you when i'm snarky.[/quote]
or dialogue with anyone when i'm being snarky. i'm sorry if i was rude.