XIX Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 Why do I get the feeling that the Associated Press is misrepresenting the priest's words?
HisChildForever Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='MissScripture' post='1633097' date='Aug 20 2008, 07:43 PM']However, telling women that they should dress modestly to help protect themselves is not a bad idea.[/quote] I agree. [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1633098' date='Aug 20 2008, 07:43 PM']But I know today's fashions make even the most normal men fantasize and lust. They may never touch the object of their lust, (more likely they may touch themselves.) And I think in these situations, the woman is very much to blame.[/quote] So now we're blaming women for the sins of men? Any respectable man would turn away if he saw a woman dressed inappropriately. Yes, he would begin to think about it, but he would correct himself as well. However, if he stares at her in order to entertain fantasies in his head, that's his problem. Back in high school, when my friends and I walked everywhere, we'd get honked at inappropriately - and we wore jeans and sweats. Did that driver go home and commit a lustful sin after thinking bad thoughts about us, because my friends and I just so happened to be walking down the street? Am I to blame for this? I'm not saying that immodestly dressed women are completely innocent. But after a certain point, it's a bit ridiculous to say that men can't control themselves. [quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1633105' date='Aug 20 2008, 07:46 PM']I don't think anyone is really trying to say that if a woman got raped she deserved it. But, what is being said, is that dressing like this certainly isn't drawing any positives and may be a factor.[/quote] I'll quote what I quoted before from this article: [quote]A police superintendent in Jamaica called on women last week to dress with greater modestly to curb rapes on the island. After an 8-year-old girl was gang-raped by five men at a market in Montego Bay, Steve McGregor blamed rapes this summer partly on girls wearing short shorts and tiny bathing suits.[/quote] Essentially, the guy is saying that if the girls weren't dressed that way, they wouldn't get raped. Which is ridiculous, because rapists don't necessarily chose their victims due to their outfits - they rape for power.
Lil Red Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='XIX' post='1633118' date='Aug 20 2008, 06:03 PM']Why do I get the feeling that the Associated Press is misrepresenting the priest's words? [/quote] +J.M.J.+ that would be a total shock!
HisChildForever Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 [quote]Men who rape women are deviants. Men can be turned on by a girl and don't think they should rape her. No, he usually thinks, man, I would like to get me some of that. Then some men, who are brave enough, will hit on her, and maybe they will that night, though I don't condone that. But men, generally, don't think about raping a girl. Only evil men who want to hurt women want to do that. Rape is not sexual, it is more about violence and control then sexual arousal![/quote] I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with you 100%. It's exactly what I'm trying to get at.
Lil Red Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 +J.M.J.+ [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1633120' date='Aug 20 2008, 06:06 PM']So now we're blaming women for the sins of men? Any respectable man would turn away if he saw a woman dressed inappropriately. Yes, he would begin to think about it, but he would correct himself as well. However, if he stares at her in order to entertain fantasies in his head, that's his problem. Back in high school, when my friends and I walked everywhere, we'd get honked at inappropriately - and we wore jeans and sweats. Did that driver go home and commit a lustful sin after thinking bad thoughts about us, because my friends and I just so happened to be walking down the street? Am I to blame for this?[/quote]where did any of us commend anyone for saying women deserve it? some of us are calling for this priest's full comments, not distorted media comments. [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1633120' date='Aug 20 2008, 06:06 PM']Essentially, the guy is saying that if the girls weren't dressed that way, they wouldn't get raped. Which is ridiculous, because rapists don't necessarily chose their victims due to their outfits - they rape for power.[/quote]i was talking about the priest, not this cop.
Vincent Vega Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 While I don't necessarily agree that mini skirts are the cause of rape, I'd say that anything which causes scandal (miniskirts do so - I know from experience) would be a condemnable thing. So good for Fr., speaking on behalf of righteousness.
HisChildForever Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='Lil Red' post='1633125' date='Aug 20 2008, 08:09 PM']+J.M.J.+ where did any of us commend anyone for saying women deserve it? [/quote] No where? I didn't use the word "deserve" in any of my replies. I just checked.
MissScripture Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1633120' date='Aug 20 2008, 08:06 PM']I agree. So now we're blaming women for the sins of men? Any respectable man would turn away if he saw a woman dressed inappropriately. Yes, he would begin to think about it, but he would correct himself as well. However, if he stares at her in order to entertain fantasies in his head, that's his problem. Back in high school, when my friends and I walked everywhere, we'd get honked at inappropriately - and we wore jeans and sweats. Did that driver go home and commit a lustful sin after thinking bad thoughts about us, because my friends and I just so happened to be walking down the street? Am I to blame for this? I'm not saying that immodestly dressed women are completely innocent. But after a certain point, it's a bit ridiculous to say that men can't control themselves.[/quote] Sadly, a lot of men/boys are socialized not to be respectable, though. When men/boys are taught to think of women as objects. And while a man's entertaining fantasies is his problem, it could turn into a larger problem, should these fantasies be acted out. It's not that men can't control themselves, it's just that to a point, in our society, they're told they don't have to, and some seem to have problems stopping at that point. [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1633120' date='Aug 20 2008, 08:06 PM']I'll quote what I quoted before from this article: Essentially, the guy is saying that if the girls weren't dressed that way, they wouldn't get raped. Which is ridiculous, because rapists don't necessarily chose their victims due to their outfits - they rape for power.[/quote] Yes, they rape for power, but they'll also go for ease. It's a lot easier to rape someone who is wearing a miniskirt that it will be to rape a woman wearing jeans. Obviously, since it's possible to get raped while wearing jeans, as well, it's not going to eliminate the problem if no one wore miniskirts, it just may make them more of a target if they are. And I do not mean that they are asking for it or anything like that, just making the point that the way someone is dressed could affect their becoming a target.
XIX Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 I think it's crucial to emphasize a certain point: Giving advice for avoiding a crime is not the same thing as saying a person deserves to have a certain crime happen to her if she doesn't fully defend herself against said crime.
HisChildForever Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 [quote]Sadly, a lot of men/boys are socialized not to be respectable, though. When men/boys are taught to think of women as objects.[/quote] Yeah, and many women/girls are socialized to dress immodestly because there's this fake idea of beauty out there that says more skin = more beautiful.
Lil Red Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 +J.M.J.+ [quote name='XIX' post='1633139' date='Aug 20 2008, 06:23 PM']I think it's crucial to emphasize a certain point: Giving advice for avoiding a crime is not the same thing as saying a person deserves to have a certain crime happen to her if she doesn't fully defend herself against said crime.[/quote] good point. [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1633141' date='Aug 20 2008, 06:25 PM']Yeah, and many women/girls are socialized to dress immodestly because there's this fake idea of beauty out there that says more skin = more beautiful. [/quote] it's very sad.
MakeYouThink Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='MissScripture' post='1633134' date='Aug 20 2008, 07:19 PM']Sadly, a lot of men/boys are socialized not to be respectable, though. When men/boys are taught to think of women as objects. And while a man's entertaining fantasies is his problem, it could turn into a larger problem, should these fantasies be acted out. It's not that men can't control themselves, it's just that to a point, in our society, they're told they don't have to, and some seem to have problems stopping at that point. Yes, they rape for power, but they'll also go for ease. It's a lot easier to rape someone who is wearing a miniskirt that it will be to rape a woman wearing jeans. Obviously, since it's possible to get raped while wearing jeans, as well, it's not going to eliminate the problem if no one wore miniskirts, it just may make them more of a target if they are. And I do not mean that they are asking for it or anything like that, just making the point that the way someone is dressed could affect their becoming a target.[/quote] Most rapists rape people who they know. There is a social connection between the people involved in one way or another. Rapists are not people who just make snap judgments saying, that girl has a mini-skirt, short shorts, or tight jeans, I'm going to rape her. Sorry, they are much more calculated than that. All Rapists are serial, because no rapists only rape once. They get to know the people they are about to rape, plan it subtly, and will execute at a time and place of they're deciding. They are filthy beasts, and they should get much more stricter punishments. I think life in prison should be appropriate, because most studies show that a rapist will continue to rape all through they're lives. So lets remove them from society to protect women everywhere. Why do the prisons fill up with people who smoke a joint, and yet rapists serve a few years get released only to be there again soon. It doesn't make much sense to me!
MissScripture Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1633145' date='Aug 20 2008, 08:28 PM']Most rapists rape people who they know. There is a social connection between the people involved in one way or another. Rapists are not people who just make snap judgments saying, that girl has a mini-skirt, short shorts, or tight jeans, I'm going to rape her. Sorry, they are much more calculated than that. All Rapists are serial, because no rapists only rape once. They get to know the people they are about to rape, plan it subtly, and will execute at a time and place of they're deciding. They are filthy beasts, and they should get much more stricter punishments. I think life in prison should be appropriate, because most studies show that a rapist will continue to rape all through they're lives. So lets remove them from society to protect women everywhere. Why do the prisons fill up with people who smoke a joint, and yet rapists serve a few years get released only to be there again soon. It doesn't make much sense to me![/quote] That still doesn't mean all rapists know their victims. Not all are calculated.
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