Animated Racism

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LibK0SCpIkk"]Racism in Disney[/url]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg2T_t2UtlU"]Disney and how they portray racism through sound[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CWMCt35oFY"]Sexism, Strength and Dominance[/url] - this video makes the case about what boys who watch Disney movies grow up to view women like. not sure i agree though.

So what do you think?

[desertwoman]

Some of those old Warner Brothers cartoons I use to watch as a kid use to make me so angry and ashamed. Like little Black Sambo, Coal Black and the Sebum Dwarfs, and so on. Youtube has a slew of them still up.

For historical purposes, and if you watch it with your kids and explain to them what they saw, I see no problem. But to let your child watch these on their own will be hefty. It happened to me....... a lot.

[homeschoolmom]

Well... Hmmm.... Obviously "Why is the Red Man Red" and "We are Siamese" are problemactic. We have used them as teachable moments.

It is not uncommon in american movies to have the villain have a British accent-- even if he's not British. Sorry.. that's not just disney.

I haven't see The Three Caballeros in... well... decades. Is it rentable? Same with John Henry. And good luck getting Song of the South-- it's not available at all. (I'm surprised they didn't mention this one. Maybe they didn't want to give Disney any credit for pulling it.)So, it would seem that some of those are not even at issue. Disney edited Fantasia (as was mentioned).

I have no problem with dancing apes or birds-- even if they are performing minstral-esque dancing. I don't think kids or most adults see it as anything other than apes dancing around.

In a movie like Aladain where all of the characters are in the Middle East, the villain is going to be from the Middle East. Same with evil characters in Mulan-- they're Asian.

How about Pocahontus? Isn't portraying the white Europeans as greedy racist? No.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P99grcBer30"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P99grcBer30[/url]

eta: To sum up-- I think Disney has tried to pull stories from different cultures and, yes, the villains in those stories are going to be from that race. I think with the accents, it's hard for children to follow the dialogue if the main characters have accents. I think they have the villains have accents to provide "authenticity"? I don't know...

[StColette]

I grew up watching Disney and I grew up in the very deep south where racism is still pretty common, but the house that I grew up in taught that racism was wrong so I don't have any racism tendencies and I don't think Disney caused any either. As for the Dominance thing, we were brought up to be very independent self sufficient girls, so that has never been an issue either. And I've never really been around any men that were overly dominant. I think some men are very dominant by nature or their upbringing not necessarily because of movies.

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1653911' date='Sep 12 2008, 10:56 AM']I haven't see The Three Caballeros in... well... decades. Is it rentable? Same with John Henry. And good luck getting Song of the South-- it's not available at all. (I'm surprised they didn't mention this one. Maybe they didn't want to give Disney any credit for pulling it.)So, it would seem that some of those are not even at issue. Disney edited Fantasia (as was mentioned).[/quote]
I think that Three Caballeros is still buyable, not sure about rentable. i know it was offered at Best Buy last year? and Song of the South is available, just not in the U.S. (as far as i know).

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1653921' date='Sep 12 2008, 01:03 PM']+J.M.J.+

I think that Three Caballeros is still buyable, not sure about rentable. i know it was offered at Best Buy last year? and Song of the South is available, just not in the U.S. (as far as i know).[/quote]
Yes, that's true. I think it is available abroad.

Okay... just watch the one regarding boys/sexism... Hmmm.... It seems to me that they place an awful lot of their argument on Gaston as the example... he's a villain.... not a role model. Peter Pan is a hero and hardly buff.

[homeschoolmom]

fwiw, I'm not a huge fan of Disney. I don't hate them though....

I haven't even seen all of the movies (Lion King, Mulan, Pocahontus, etc)... so, yeah. I do have issues with racism in cartoons (as someone said, WB was HORRIBLE back in the day). I pick and choose when it comes to Disney... so, yeah.. don't jump all over me.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='StColette' post='1653915' date='Sep 12 2008, 05:58 PM']I grew up watching Disney and I grew up in the very deep south where racism is still pretty common, but the house that I grew up in taught that racism was wrong so I don't have any racism tendencies and I don't think Disney caused any either. As for the Dominance thing, we were brought up to be very independent self sufficient girls, so that has never been an issue either. And I've never really been around any men that were overly dominant. I think some men are very dominant by nature or their upbringing not necessarily because of movies.[/quote]
Yeah, I know. I grew up in the South (not the Deep South, but still southern in culture) and also grew up watching things like Song of the South. But my parents made it clear that racism & sexism were both wrong; this was definitely reinforced by having biracial cousins whom I saw quite frequently. I think these films can be teachable moments. Kinda like reading Kipling; many postcolonial authors dislike Kipling's portrayal of native characters, but his writing is good and those are very teachable moments in his stories.

Don't think I've seen the WB things that were mentioned, so I can't comment on those.

[aalpha1989]

....

I only watched the first link. But I thought it was croutons. You can only see those as racist if you're trying to, it's not what disney intended. Asian stereotypes? Weeell sorry to tell you but those "stereotypes" weren't stereotypes, they were merely drawing from parts of asian culture and history. They didn't say anything bad about asia, they only showed a guy wearing one of those hats. And as for the Siamese thing, I don't remember the whole song, but the clips they showed were certainly not racist. There are cats called "siamese cats". We all know this. Why try to pin disney as racist because they used the name of an animal? People are waaaaaaay too easily offended, and "political correctness" has come too far. The Jungle Book? c'mon people.

[HisChildForever]

I agree with the video, but like someone said, more examples should have been used. And I think some things were taken out of context. As mentioned, Gaston was the villian. Yes, he objectified women and yes he looked down upon Beast for being kind and gentle, but in the end, Beast is victorious, not Gaston. Also, in Mulan, in the beginning we see women as meant to be prim and proper (and how Mulan didn't fit in and was looked upon as a disaster), and the male soldiers were seen as barbaric pigs with narrow views on women. However, once Mulan was revealed to be a woman, and the men eventually accepted her, the movie portrays that women are equal to men and that women can do things men can't: Mulan was the first one to succeed in climbing the pole and getting the arrow. In this instance, determination was more important than physical strength. Also, Mulan saved the Emperor (and I'm pretty sure she devised the plan). In the end of the movie, she's back home and dressed feminine, but it's clear that she's not some girl in a nice dress.

[fides quarens intellectum]

from the third clip:

[quote]Most Disney movies revolve around a heterosexual relationship between a hero and a heroine.[/quote]

for shame!!

actually, my beef with Disney isn't what these clips are yammering about.

[rizz_loves_jesus]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1654044' date='Sep 12 2008, 04:02 PM']....

I only watched the first link. But I thought it was croutons. You can only see those as racist if you're trying to, it's not what disney intended. Asian stereotypes? Weeell sorry to tell you but those "stereotypes" weren't stereotypes, they were merely drawing from parts of asian culture and history. They didn't say anything bad about asia, they only showed a guy wearing one of those hats. And as for the Siamese thing, I don't remember the whole song, but the clips they showed were certainly not racist. There are cats called "siamese cats". We all know this. Why try to pin disney as racist because they used the name of an animal? People are waaaaaaay too easily offended, and "political correctness" has come too far. The Jungle Book? c'mon people.[/quote]

iawtc

[homeschoolmom]

[url="http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2008/07/is_disneys_new_princess_movie.html"]http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2008/...cess_movie.html[/url]

Disney's upcoming princess movie is already getting criticized as racist. It comes out in 2009.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1654238' date='Sep 12 2008, 08:50 PM'][url="http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2008/07/is_disneys_new_princess_movie.html"]http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2008/...cess_movie.html[/url]

Disney's upcoming princess movie is already getting criticized as racist. It comes out in 2009.[/quote]


LOL. of course it is. there's no real issue to talk about and people are tired of talking about the race card in the election, so why not pick on one of the most politically correct modern companies?

I didn't see anything about that firefly being black. I didn't see anything about that firefly being ANY race, for that matter. For people to make assumptions about it is, in fact, racist in itself. It is a: saying that there is some truth that black people in NO are toothless, or b: promoting the idea that black people in NO are toothless, even if it is promoting the idea as a false one. It's a HUGE stretch, to say the least, to say that that trailer is racist, and it is a big one to say the same about the other clips, too.

I greatly dislike Disney. There are lots of reasons to dislike Disney. Racism in the given clips is most definitely not one of them. I mean seriously. What if a Chinese film showed Americans eating burgers and fries? Would you be offended?

"DUDE! That Chinese film showed Americans eating fries and wearing baseball caps! I'm OFFENDED!"

Personally, I'd find it hilarious if some eastern country produced a film that made fun of the west's fear of offending "minderheiten" (sorry, I've been thinking in german all day), minorities. i mean we should strive not to offend them, but at some point (um now) it because ridiculous.

[rizz_loves_jesus]

There's neither racism nor sexism in Disney films.

The protagonist in [i]Mulan[/i] is an [b]Asian woman[/b].

Beast in [i]Beauty and the Beast[/i] learns to be peaceful and control his temper [b]instead of[/b] being violent (and, as someone pointed out, Gaston is the antagonist, so he shouldn't even be brought up.) The three silly girls are seen as dumb bimbos as opposed to Belle, who is intelligent and independent (but still falls in love with the Beast.)

Ariel in [i]The Little Mermaid[/i] is a strong-willed protagonist who saves the kingdom from Ursula.

As for the objectification of women, you'll notice in [i]Aladdin[/i] that it's the antagonist Jafar who objectifies Jasmine by dressing her up in a skimpy little outfit and making her his palace slave. Aladdin is nothing but respectful toward her.

I'm sorry, but I found both of those videos incredibly ridiculous. I was raised on Disney, and I've never gotten the message to be subservient to men or that I'm in any way lower than them (quite the opposite, actually.) My boyfriend watched a lot of Disney too, and I know he would never objectify me and that he respects me (and the same for me to him.) I think aalpha hit the nail on the head in regards to racism in Disney cartoons.

To sum it up, I think this is just another whiny PC statement meant solely for PC people to have something else to complain about.

[Galloglasses' Alt]

[quote name='rizz_loves_jesus' post='1654662' date='Sep 13 2008, 12:40 PM']There's neither racism nor sexism in Disney films.

The protagonist in [i]Mulan[/i] is an [b]Asian woman[/b].

Beast in [i]Beauty and the Beast[/i] learns to be peaceful and control his temper [b]instead of[/b] being violent (and, as someone pointed out, Gaston is the antagonist, so he shouldn't even be brought up.) The three silly girls are seen as dumb bimbos as opposed to Belle, who is intelligent and independent (but still falls in love with the Beast.)

Ariel in [i]The Little Mermaid[/i] is a strong-willed protagonist who saves the kingdom from Ursula.

As for the objectification of women, you'll notice in [i]Aladdin[/i] that it's the antagonist Jafar who objectifies Jasmine by dressing her up in a skimpy little outfit and making her his palace slave. Aladdin is nothing but respectful toward her.

I'm sorry, but I found both of those videos incredibly ridiculous. I was raised on Disney, and I've never gotten the message to be subservient to men or that I'm in any way lower than them (quite the opposite, actually.) My boyfriend watched a lot of Disney too, and I know he would never objectify me and that he respects me (and the same for me to him.) I think aalpha hit the nail on the head in regards to racism in Disney cartoons.

To sum it up, I think this is just another whiny PC statement meant solely for PC people to have something else to complain about.[/quote]

iawtp

For the record, I was a young boy raised on disney movies and cartoons. I didn't turn out chuvanist! But I am virulently anti-feminist, [b][i]feminist[/i][/b], not Feminine. But that stems from a plethora of veiws and influences I got asides from disney.

For the record, Barbie Dolls are a worse influence on Little girls, then Disney is on boys respectively. =/

[dustthouart]

I don't think we want to be too extreme. There is NOTHING racist or sexist in old Disney films? [i]Really?[/i]

Ironically I just reread the book [i]Black Like Me[/i] today... take the Dumbo example of the "happy hearted roustabouts." How can you not see the racism there? That image of black people as content in ignorance was one of the most powerful racist arguments for keeping black people uneducated and in menial labor.

That said, do I think there was [i]malice[/i] in these Disney depictions? No. But to say there is no racism, no exoticism, no patronizing attitude or sense of superiority, at ALL... I don't see how you can possibly argue that.

RE: the Asian stereotypes. What makes the Siamese song problematic is that it exemplifies the "inscrutable Oriental" stereotype. The unspoken message is that Asians do not operate on the same rules of logic as "normal" people. As for the defense that the Siamese is a real breed of cat, obviously you have never met an actual Siamese cat. Siamese cats are known for being very doglike, super friendly, and some even fetch. Also, note the "slanty" eyes of the cats.

I can understand the impulse to oppose political correctness wherever you encounter it, but it's dangerous to think that anything that liberals oppose must be good.

(The sexism video, on the other hand, is dumb, drawing mostly on Gaston as it does. I would disregard its specific points, but I would not claim that there has been no sexism in Disney films ever.)

[Socrates]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1653888' date='Sep 12 2008, 11:30 AM']+J.M.J.+
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LibK0SCpIkk"]Racism in Disney[/url]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg2T_t2UtlU"]Disney and how they portray racism through sound[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CWMCt35oFY"]Sexism, Strength and Dominance[/url] - this video makes the case about what boys who watch Disney movies grow up to view women like. not sure i agree though.

So what do you think?[/quote]
This stupid load of politically-correct liberal pansydom is almost beyond parody, especially the last one (on "sexism").

And personally, if I had kids I'd rather them watch the old un-pc classic cartoons, than the modern post-Michael Eisner flicks, which are often politically-correct sermons for the kiddies dressed up in song-and-dance.

Were there some racial stereotypes in old Disney cartoons? A little, but the same could be found (and often much more blatantly) in pretty much [i]all[/i] entertainment of the period. Acting as if Disney was up to something sinister is ridiculous. To be consistent, we'd have to censor all movies from prior to 1960 or when have you.

Most of the examples of "racism" I do not think are particularly offensive; most of them were cases of pc looking for things to get "offended" at. Disney cartoons are full of goofy, ridiculous comic characters, yet no one gets "offended" unless they are perceived to be non-white. (Speaking of goofy, Goofy, judging by his voice and skin complexion, appears to be white. Does this popular kids character perpetuate the stereotype that white people are all bumbling buck-toothed idiots?)
And if that pistolero rooster guy smears Latinos as violent, what do these people say about Yosemite Sam?
(And is the ridiculous, squawking lily-white Donald Duck racist against whites, or just against ducks?)
I also thought it was funny how that vid turned around and complained that those dancing Brazilians were all white, while no doubt if they were black or whatever, they'd complain about the scene perpetuating some racist stereotype or another (like how blacks are good dancers).
The shaggy-haired dancing monkeys in [i]The Jungle Book[/i] didn't even look "black" and were voiced by white actors, so I don't see why that was even seen as racist (unless you're so racist as to equate dancing monkeys with black people!)
And, as others have pointed out, it's silly to complain about having villains of a certain race/ethnicity in movies where the heroes and all the other characters are also of the same said ethnicity (Aladin, Mulan)
And the offending centaur scenes from [i]Fantasia[/i] have been cut from all modern releases of the film, so I don't see the point in digging them back up.

The "sexism" video almost needs no comment. You want to tell the oh-so-sentivitive-and-pc (male) narrator to grow a pair and get a frickin' life! "Most Disney movies revolve around a heterosexual relationship between a hero and a heroine"! Hercules has muscles! Male heroes and villains fight!The horror! Apparently the kiddies would be better off if they were all watching animated equivalents of [i]Brokeback Mountain[/i] (which unfortunately, given certain "educational" trends, doesn't seem so far-fetched now.
The sexist pig Gaston was, of course, the villain of that movie, which actually had a not politically incorrect message about girls being smart and standing up for themselves. And while I didn't see it, I remember Mulan being criticized for promoting a feminist message.

I'm sorry, but the pathetic liberal pc pansies who make and promote such videos need to stop whining and seeking out "racism" "sexism" and "heterosexism" in everything, and get a life!
Sheesh!

This entire thread belongs on the Lame Board.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Socrates

[Socrates]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1653911' date='Sep 12 2008, 11:56 AM']It is not uncommon in american movies to have the villain have a British accent-- even if he's not British. Sorry.. that's not just disney.[/quote]
That's actually a venerable old tradition. I heard in some feature on an animated DC comics video that in the old days, playing the villain was regarded as a coveted role to gain respect in the British theatre, so British actors would often actually seek out villain roles in hollywood films. With time, the British accent itself became associated with movie villainy.

Nothing to do with "racism" as that silly video charges (and aren't the Brits white?)

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
[quote name='dustthouart' post='1656221' date='Sep 15 2008, 05:16 PM']I don't think we want to be too extreme. There is NOTHING racist or sexist in old Disney films? [i]Really?[/i]

Ironically I just reread the book [i]Black Like Me[/i] today... take the Dumbo example of the "happy hearted roustabouts." How can you not see the racism there? That image of black people as content in ignorance was one of the most powerful racist arguments for keeping black people uneducated and in menial labor.

That said, do I think there was [i]malice[/i] in these Disney depictions? No. But to say there is no racism, no exoticism, no patronizing attitude or sense of superiority, at ALL... I don't see how you can possibly argue that.

RE: the Asian stereotypes. What makes the Siamese song problematic is that it exemplifies the "inscrutable Oriental" stereotype. The unspoken message is that Asians do not operate on the same rules of logic as "normal" people. As for the defense that the Siamese is a real breed of cat, obviously you have never met an actual Siamese cat. Siamese cats are known for being very doglike, super friendly, and some even fetch. Also, note the "slanty" eyes of the cats.

I can understand the impulse to oppose political correctness wherever you encounter it, but it's dangerous to think that anything that liberals oppose must be good.

(The sexism video, on the other hand, is dumb, drawing mostly on Gaston as it does. I would disregard its specific points, but I would not claim that there has been no sexism in Disney films ever.)[/quote]
interesting points, thanks.