Desecration Of The Eucharist

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1665714' date='Sep 28 2008, 02:12 PM']Satanists exist. Really weird to think that.

As for protecting the Eucharist...I don't know exactly.

I think I would follow picchick's formula as you deal with it (post 23).

One of those situation decisions I think I would make at the moment and I think I would know what I should do at the moment.

Good line to follow though....when in doubt ask WWJD...quicker method than playing 20 questions.[/quote]


Well jesus whipped the money changers.

[SpareTime]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1666187' date='Sep 29 2008, 09:00 AM']Well jesus whipped the money changers.[/quote]

That's open to interpretation of the passage. It doesn't specifically say he whipped the money changers. It says he drove them away with whips. Why do proponents of violence like to cling to their hope that Jesus whipped people? (I just looked up all four accounts of The Cleansing of the Temple to be sure before I posted this, btw. I use the RSV SCE.)

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='SpareTime' post='1666362' date='Sep 29 2008, 04:41 PM']That's open to interpretation of the passage. It doesn't specifically say he whipped the money changers. It says he drove them away with whips. Why do proponents of violence like to cling to their hope that Jesus whipped people? (I just looked up all four accounts of The Cleansing of the Temple to be sure before I posted this, btw. I use the RSV SCE.)[/quote]


douey-rheims

"And when he had made, as it were, a scourge of little cords, he drove them all out of the temple, the sheep also and the oxen, and the money of the changers he poured out, and the tables he overthrew."

New American

"He found in the temple area those who sold oxen, sheep, and doves, 13 as well as the money-changers seated there.
He made a whip out of cords and drove them all out of the temple area, with the sheep and oxen, and spilled the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables, and to those who sold doves he said, "Take these out of here, and stop making my Father's house a marketplace."

He drove them out with the sheep and the oxen, with a scourge. First, it's a scourge, which he made from donkey tethers, not a bull whip, this thing doesn't crack, the only way it causes anything to move is to hit it with the thing (while the new american translationuses whip instead of scourge, unless the the creation of it was a miraculous event there is no way it could be a bull whip, such a thing takes a very long time to weave.) Second it list the money changers with the oxen, and the sheep and says that he drove them with the livestock. In otherwords, he treated them like livestock, he whipped them as you would an oxen. Now those would be my actual scriptural reasons for saying that he hit them butthere are very practical reasons as well. He turned over their money changing tables, this is not something that they are going to allow to happen unless he is actually hurting them, to much money would be lost. But armed with a scourge which he was hitting people with, well thats another issue entirely.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='SpareTime' post='1666362' date='Sep 29 2008, 04:41 PM']That's open to interpretation of the passage. It doesn't specifically say he whipped the money changers. It says he drove them away with whips. Why do proponents of violence like to cling to their hope that Jesus whipped people? (I just looked up all four accounts of The Cleansing of the Temple to be sure before I posted this, btw. I use the RSV SCE.)[/quote]



And who exactly is a proponant of violence?


Besides there is plenty of scriptural justification for violence, even in the New testement. Try reading Saint Augustine, or Saint Thomas Aquinas.

[Guest]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1664454' date='Sep 26 2008, 04:43 PM']Thats why i gave a possibly choice.


About 15 years ago Satanist ( yes believe it or not they really exist) broke into my Church. they cut through the side of the Vault to get the holy vessals and broke open the tabernacle ( they left the several thousand dollars in cash from the collection) and desecrated the Eucharist with feces and urine, and took some of the Host with them. The Police told my pastor that it had been an issue in the area in the past and that the Cult apparantly used the Holy Vessals for the Black Mass. The expectation was that the Eucharist that was taken would be subject to ritualized desecration.

So had come along in my truck when that was happening how much force would be appropraite?[/quote]

In my humble opinon Don John these "people" should be killed asap.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1666387' date='Sep 29 2008, 05:28 PM']In my humble opinon Don John these "people" should be killed asap.[/quote]


You are not who I expected to hear that from.

[Guest]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1666407' date='Sep 29 2008, 05:48 PM']You are not who I expected to hear that from.[/quote]


ya, i gotta quit being so clueless
these antichrist and devils really want war

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1665992' date='Sep 28 2008, 09:33 PM']Found this on AntiCatholicTube



[i]
[b]5. Promotes hatred or violence against a protected group
Hate speech is content that promotes or encourages hatred or violence towards a group based on race or ethnic origin, religion, disability, gender, age, veteran status and sexual orientation/gender identity.[/b]
The link is not here...but [url="http://help.youtube.com/support/youtube/bin/answer.py?answer=78716"]here[/url]!

Now the question is.....do all these desecration videos fall under this? I strongly think yes.

These videos should not be according to youtube's policy and they should be although I wonder if the person checking the flags is biased? [/quote]

Definitely... we should flag the vids.

Though yes, the person checking the flags is probably biased, in my not-so-optimistic opinion. But you never know...

[Maximilianus]

I wouldn't use deadly force, but I would do all I could to stop the desecration, I wouldn't just stand their and watch it happen. If the perpetrator(s) get some bumps, bruises or broken body parts, oops.

Edited September 30, 2008 by Maximilianus

[Selah]

I'd go Avatar State on them

No, seriously...we say we'll protest and write youtube, but are we? Are we doing just that? I know I am!

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1664405' date='Sep 26 2008, 06:15 PM']First let me appologize for saying Principal instead of Principle. I can't believe i did that.[/quote]

I catch myself all the time switching homophones when I'm typing... I think two words that sound the same, but are spelled differently, are called homophones... pullin' that one from way back in the files of 3rd grade English class.

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1664405' date='Sep 26 2008, 06:15 PM']The Principle of Forfeiture is a tenet of Natural Law theory that says basically, that there are actions which people can take by which they forfeit there own right to live. Thus one does not have to worry about the Principle of Double Effect, they have forfeited their own right to live and therefore they can be killed. This is a major reason why capital punishment has always been accepted by the Church, and is totally in keeping with Church teaching. However, it makes many moderns quite uneasy.[/quote]

I see... so to answer that, no, I don't think desecration of a sacrament causes a person to forfeit their right to live. The Church has always taught that capital punishment is acceptable, but it is also a last resort that is rarely necessary in first-world countries with modern prison systems, not to mention advanced psychological/psychiatric treatment.

I saw a headline the other day that YouTube is allowing videos showing descration of the Eucharist. I'm a bit surprised there are videos of such things. Just how many people out there are doing this stuff, and is it really that easy for them to obtain a cosecrated hosts?

[Selah]

[quote]I saw a headline the other day that YouTube is allowing videos showing descration of the Eucharist. I'm a bit surprised there are videos of such things. Just how many people out there are doing this stuff, and is it really that easy for them to obtain a cosecrated hosts[/quote]

They need to be more selective as to whom they give communion to, then.

Shame on youtube. Any other hate speech and those videos would have been yanked.

[abercius24]

[quote name='Selah' post='1666791' date='Sep 30 2008, 07:27 AM']I'd go Avatar State on them

No, seriously...we say we'll protest and write youtube, but are we? Are we doing just that? I know I am![/quote]

I agree. Too many Catholics who are all talk. It's more admirable to be peacefully engaged in protest then it is to sit around debating the use of violence.

Edited October 5, 2008 by abercius24