Hassan Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1676569' date='Oct 13 2008, 08:32 PM']I would argue that because politicians like Obama are close but not equal to the level of evil the abortionist commits. Why, because these politicians enact laws that allow the abortionist to commit mass genocide, and they also obstruct attempts to save the lives of the unborn. Much the same way Stalin's Russia system of government worked. The Communist statement would only enact laws that murdered Jews and Christians it was others that physically committed murder. One murders by a gun, the other allows murder by the pen.[/quote] Obama has blocked attampts to end abortion through legislative procedures because the USSC has ruled it a Constitutional Right, that is not the same thing as universally working against all attempts to end abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1676569' date='Oct 13 2008, 06:32 PM']I would argue that because politicians like Obama are close but not equal to the level of evil the abortionist commits. Why, because these politicians enact laws that allow the abortionist to commit mass genocide, and they also obstruct attempts to save the lives of the unborn. Much the same way Stalin's Russia system of government worked. The Communist statement would only enact laws that murdered Jews and Christians it was others that physically committed murder. One murders by a gun, the other allows murder by the pen.[/quote] Can we please do without the sensationalist mentions of socialism/communism/holocausts/murder? I know very well where you stand on abortion and how you view it, but I'm sick and tired of reading sensationalist garbage instead of logical answers. I know you're smart, so how about you show that rather than your ability to drum up rants and raves? That being said, I understand where you are coming from. But politicians are not formally cooperating in the act so that does not place them on the same level. Because, for example, what if abortion was illegal, and a politician supported the legalization of abortion. Are they still responsible for those who procure an abortion illegally? Or do you wish to pretend that the law makes all abortions magically go away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Hassan' post='1676561' date='Oct 13 2008, 06:29 PM']What if I believe in theory that the government, as a matter of constitutional law, has a right to use tax revenue to fund legal medical procedures and as abortion is, in the United States legal, the government has a constitutional right to use tax revenue to fund abortions for poor women. However I also believe that abortionis wrong and work to end it through non-legal avanues?[/quote] The nature of law, which is known through the use of right reason, determines the validity or invalidity of any particular positive law of the State. If a positive law conforms to the natural law it follows that one is obliged to obey it, but if it is contrary to the natural law one is duty bound to dissent from it. The previous Pope addressed your comment in his encyclical [i]Evangelium Vitae[/i] when he said that "Every law made by man can be called a law insofar as it derives from the natural law. But if it is somehow opposed to the natural law, then it is not really a law but rather a corruption of the law." No one is ever permitted to accept a law that promotes the murder of the innocent. Edited October 14, 2008 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 [quote name='Hassan' post='1676561' date='Oct 13 2008, 06:29 PM']However I also believe that abortionis wrong and work to end it through non-legal avanues?[/quote] In the face of tyranny, one is permitted -- as a last resort -- to rebel. Now the existing government would look upon such an act as "illegal," but the Church would not. A government that fails to recognize the rights of its citizens, and most particularly the right to life, is not a valid government any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1676574' date='Oct 13 2008, 08:35 PM']Can we please do without the sensationalist mentions of socialism/communism/holocausts/murder? I know very well where you stand on abortion and how you view it, but I'm sick and tired of reading sensationalist garbage instead of logical answers. I know you're smart, so how about you show that rather than your ability to drum up rants and raves? That being said, I understand where you are coming from. But politicians are not formally cooperating in the act so that does not place them on the same level. Because, for example, what if abortion was illegal, and a politician supported the legalization of abortion. Are they still responsible for those who procure an abortion illegally? Or do you wish to pretend that the law makes all abortions magically go away?[/quote] It is logical to recall historical events in time which most level headed people know where evil and unjustice, and compare those same events in history to current events. I did not state that both where on the same level but they are close. Without the law backing abortionist they could not operate freely, because of this the two work hand in hand. Politicians have a God given duty to protect the citizens, they commit a great evil by allowing their people to be subject to genocide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 im gonig to work i love phatmass vote mccain obama would be an awful president, i agree although he is a married baptised father of two brother in christ and does deserve respect and charity... abortion was here before him and hopefully the holy spirt can wake him up to the evil of it... and gay marrige ?? grossssssssssssssssssss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1676589' date='Oct 13 2008, 06:52 PM']im gonig to work i love phatmass vote mccain obama would be an awful president, i agree although he is a married baptised father of two brother in christ and does deserve respect and charity... abortion was here before him and hopefully the holy spirit can wake him up to the evil of it... and gay marrige ?? grossssssssssssssssssss[/quote] God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1676585' date='Oct 13 2008, 06:46 PM']It is logical to recall historical events in time which most level headed people know where evil and unjustice, and compare those same events in history to current events. I did not state that both where on the same level but they are close. Without the law backing abortionist they could not operate freely, because of this the two work hand in hand. Politicians have a God given duty to protect the citizens, they commit a great evil by allowing their people to be subject to genocide.[/quote] I understand logical references to history, but you only mention these things to stir emotion and create sensationalist feelings. I'm sick and tired of reading it. This isn't a pro-life march, this is a debate. Those tactics won't work here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 (edited) Warnings about historical evils are a good thing, whether people want to hear them or not. Those who do not know history, are doomed to repeat it. Edited October 14, 2008 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1676596' date='Oct 13 2008, 09:04 PM']I understand logical references to history, but you only mention these things to stir emotion and create sensationalist feelings. I'm sick and tired of reading it. This isn't a pro-life march, this is a debate. Those tactics won't work here.[/quote] No, I point it out because it is logical to recall historical events in time which most level headed people know where evil and unjustice, and compare those same events in history to current events. [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1676597' date='Oct 13 2008, 09:08 PM']Warnings about historical evils are a good thing, whether people want to hear them or not. Those who do not know history, are doomed to repeat it.[/quote] Exactly. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1676597' date='Oct 13 2008, 07:08 PM']Warnings about historical evils are a good thing, whether people want to hear them or not. Those who do not know history, are doomed to repeat it.[/quote] We're all quite aware the connections you make between abortion and the holocaust, communism, etc. I don't need to be reminded every post, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1676589' date='Oct 13 2008, 08:52 PM']im gonig to work i love phatmass vote mccain obama would be an awful president, i agree although he is a married baptised father of two brother in christ and does deserve respect and charity... abortion was here before him and hopefully the holy spirt can wake him up to the evil of it... and gay marrige ?? grossssssssssssssssssss[/quote] Agree, although people can vote 3rd party. Peace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1676608' date='Oct 13 2008, 07:33 PM']We're all quite aware the connections you make between abortion and the holocaust, communism, etc. I don't need to be reminded every post, thanks.[/quote] What you want is really irrelevant to me. May God bless you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 (edited) I dont think a lot of people seem to realize what is at stake here. Are we really about to elect someone for president who apologized for voting to save Teri Schaivo's life? Who said that American troops were air raiding and bombing civilians in Afghanistan? Who is a close associate of a known American terrorist, Ayers? Who may be secretly a Muslim? Edited October 14, 2008 by Saint Therese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1676410' date='Oct 13 2008, 06:58 PM']for Obama... Some of the stuff that is being said on here is kinda of makeing me wonder how some of you call yourselves christians ?[/quote] And you have no right to accuse people of "hate" and "being unChristian" just because we dare to criticize a politician. Pull the plank from your own eye before complaining about the splinter in ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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