Mccain Is Pro-choice?

[flip]

Ok, I found this stuff on McCain... does anyone know if he has changed his thoughts since 2000?

[b]Abortion OK if raped; and no testing for rape[/b]
McCain was asked whether he would reinstate the Reagan era rule that prevents international family planning clinics that receive federal funds from discussing abortion. “I don’t believe they should advocate abortion with my tax dollars,” McCain said, adding that he opposed abortion except in cases of rape and incest. He was then asked how he would determine whether someone had in fact been raped. McCain responded, “I think that I would give the benefit of the doubt to the person who alleges that.”
Source: New York Times, p. A17 Jan 25, 2000

[b]Overturn Roe v. Wade, but keep incest & rape exceptions[/b]
McCain said he thought Roe v. Wade should be overturned and said he would support exceptions to a ban on abortion in cases of rape, incest, and when the mother’s life is in danger.
Source: Boston Globe, p. A11 Jan 22, 2000

[b]Restrict abortions; no partial-birth; no public funding[/b]
McCain supports the following statements:
Abortions should be legal only when the pregnancy resulted from incest, rape, or when the life of the woman is endangered.
Prohibit the late-term abortion procedure known as “partial-birth” abortion.
Prohibit public funding of abortions and public funding of organizations that advocate or perform abortions.
Source: Project Vote Smart, 1998, www.vote-smart.org Jul 2, 1998


[b]Prosecute abortion doctors, not women who get them[/b]
On “Meet the Press,” McCain said he had “come to the conclusion that the exceptions for rape, incest, and the life of the mother are legitimate exceptions” to an outright ban on abortions. “I don’t claim to be a theologian, but I have my moral beliefs.” If Roe v. Wade is overturned and abortion outlawed, McCain said he believes doctors who performed abortions would be prosecuted. “But I would not prosecute a woman” who obtained an abortion.

[jmjtina]

No, he has not.

However, Is he pro-choice in the truest sense of the word?

No.

* McCain: received a 0% rating from NARAL and a 75% rating from the NRLC. Supports repealing Roe v. Wade, voted YES on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP, voted YES on barring HHS grants to organizations that perform abortions, voted YES on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions, voted YES on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime, voted YES on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life, voted YES on maintaining ban on military base abortions, voted YES on banning partial birth abortions. (from [url="http://ontheissues.org"]ontheissues.org[/url])

While the killing of unborn babies is NEVER permissible, why would someone be labeled pro-choice for wanting to repeal Roe v. Wade?

When looking at McCain, it is important to remember that he is not consistent in defending life from the Catholic Church teachings, but he has helped the Pro-Life cause, and we simply can not ignore that.

Edited October 22, 2008 by jmjtina

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='jmjtina' post='1683647' date='Oct 22 2008, 04:20 PM']No, he has not.

However, Is he pro-choice in the truest sense of the word?

No.

* McCain: received a 0% rating from NARAL and a 75% rating from the NRLC. Supports repealing Roe v. Wade, voted YES on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP, voted YES on barring HHS grants to organizations that perform abortions, voted YES on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions, voted YES on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime, voted YES on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life, voted YES on maintaining ban on military base abortions, voted YES on banning partial birth abortions. (from [url="http://ontheissues.org"]ontheissues.org[/url])

While the killing of unborn babies is NEVER permissible, why would someone be labeled pro-choice for wanting to repeal Roe v. Wade?

When looking at McCain, it is important to remember that he is not consistent in defending life from the Catholic Church teachings, but he has helped the Pro-Life cause, and we simply can not ignore that.[/quote]
Um, the truest sense of the word means the choice to choose an abortion. He is for that choice when it comes to rape and incest. That means he is pro-choice, in the truest sense of the word.

[flip]

[quote name='jmjtina' post='1683647' date='Oct 22 2008, 06:20 PM']No, he has not.

However, Is he pro-choice in the truest sense of the word?

No.

* McCain: received a 0% rating from NARAL and a 75% rating from the NRLC. Supports repealing Roe v. Wade, voted YES on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP, voted YES on barring HHS grants to organizations that perform abortions, voted YES on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions, voted YES on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime, voted YES on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life, voted YES on maintaining ban on military base abortions, voted YES on banning partial birth abortions. (from [url="http://ontheissues.org"]ontheissues.org[/url])

While the killing of unborn babies is NEVER permissible, why would someone be labeled pro-choice for wanting to repeal Roe v. Wade?

When looking at McCain, it is important to remember that he is not consistent in defending life from the Catholic Church teachings, but he has helped the Pro-Life cause, and we simply can not ignore that.[/quote]


I think Pro-Life means just that... being PRO LIFE at all times. If you are pro-choice in any circumstance, you are pro-death...

but that's just what I think. You might think otherwise, and that's ok.

[jmjtina]

I see where you are coming from, this isn't the first discussion I've had on it.

while I don't agree with McCain on all circumstances, personally, I wouldn't say he was pro-choice.

But that's just me.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='jmjtina' post='1683663' date='Oct 22 2008, 04:37 PM']I see where you are coming from, this isn't the first discussion I've had on it.

while I don't agree with McCain on all circumstances, personally, I wouldn't say he was pro-choice.

But that's just me. [/quote]
You can't have it both ways. Politically, he is "pro-life" because he claims he wants abortion outlawed. This I can agree. However, if you want to talk about what it really means to be pro-life or pro-choice, in the TRUEST SENSE, he is pro-choice. He is for having a choice. As long as he finds having any kind of choice permissible, if you are going by what it really means to be for choice, then he is pro-choice.

I believe his "pro-life" label is nothing more than his attempt to pander. Name for me any proactive things he's done to further the pro-life movement. I'll bet you find that he hasn't. Sure, he says he's pro-life, but that doesn't mean he personally wants to further the movement.

[jmjtina]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1683669' date='Oct 22 2008, 05:42 PM']You can't have it both ways. Politically, he is "pro-life" because he claims he wants abortion outlawed. This I can agree. However, if you want to talk about what it really means to be pro-life or pro-choice, in the TRUEST SENSE, he is pro-choice. He is for having a choice. As long as he finds having any kind of choice permissible, if you are going by what it really means to be for choice, then he is pro-choice.

I believe his "pro-life" label is nothing more than his attempt to pander. Name for me any proactive things he's done to further the pro-life movement. I'll bet you find that he hasn't. Sure, he says he's pro-life, but that doesn't mean he personally wants to further the movement.[/quote]

Wow. If I had more time.

Right now: I would encourage you to READ his voting record. He doesn't "claim" anything. He has voted in favor of pro-life issues before and will continue to do so.

Now is he pro-life in the Catholic sense of the word?

No. However, the pro-choice movement and I have one thing in common. The label Pro-Choice does not apply to John McCain. And by the Pro-Choice movement, I mean [url="http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/"]NARAL: Pro Choice America.
[/url]
[quote]McCain-Palin is the most anti-choice presidential campaign ever. They support:

* A ban on abortion with no exceptions for rape or incest;
* The overturn of Roe v. Wade; and
* Anti-choice judges.[/quote]



What you "believe" his label is and the reality of what he has done for the pro-life movement are two different things.

Edited October 22, 2008 by jmjtina

[Ash Wednesday]

If we take away the "pro-life" and "pro-choice" labels on politicians here, I still think it's plain to see that, from a Catholic perspective, McCain's stances would do more to restrict or reduce abortions, compared to Obama who favors no restrictions whatsoever. If someone still believes that McCain is still wrong on his abortion policy and finds that it goes against their conscience (a correctly formed one, that is), they are not obligated to vote for him and may vote third party as some are doing on here.

The bottom line is, McCain's record isn't necessarily great, but that is no excuse for any Catholic to vote for Obama.

Edited October 22, 2008 by Ash Wednesday

[Guest]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1683732' date='Oct 22 2008, 06:36 PM']If we take away the "pro-life" and "pro-choice" labels on politicians here, I still think it's plain to see that, from a Catholic perspective, McCain's stances would do more to restrict or reduce abortions, compared to Obama who favors no restrictions whatsoever. If someone still feels that McCain is still wrong on his abortion policy, they are not obligated to vote for him and may vote third party as some are doing on here.

The bottom line is, McCain's record isn't necessarily great, but that is no excuse for any Catholic to vote for Obama.[/quote]

Very well said.

[Ash Wednesday]

I changed my wording away from "feeling" a certain way about a vote because I worried it would be misleading. We vote with conscience, not feelings.

Furthermore, it's certainly understandable to feel cynical and wonder whether or not politicians hold some anti-abortion stances for the sake of the evangelical or conservative vote -- but on the flip side, why should we reward someone so liberally in favor of abortion with our vote?

Edited October 22, 2008 by Ash Wednesday

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1683732' date='Oct 22 2008, 05:36 PM']If we take away the "pro-life" and "pro-choice" labels on politicians here, I still think it's plain to see that, from a Catholic perspective, McCain's stances would do more to restrict or reduce abortions, compared to Obama who favors no restrictions whatsoever. If someone still believes that McCain is still wrong on his abortion policy and finds that it goes against their conscience (a correctly formed one, that is), they are not obligated to vote for him and may vote third party as some are doing on here.

The bottom line is, McCain's record isn't necessarily great, but that is no excuse for any Catholic to vote for Obama.[/quote]
It is, however, a good reason to vote third party.

[flip]

[quote name='jmjtina' post='1683682' date='Oct 22 2008, 07:05 PM']Wow. If I had more time.

Right now: I would encourage you to READ his voting record. He doesn't "claim" anything. He has voted in favor of pro-life issues before and will continue to do so.

Now is he pro-life in the Catholic sense of the word?

No. However, the pro-choice movement and I have one thing in common. The label Pro-Choice does not apply to John McCain. And by the Pro-Choice movement, I mean [url="http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/"]NARAL: Pro Choice America.
[/url]




What you "believe" his label is and the reality of what he has done for the pro-life movement are two different things.[/quote]


wait, where did you quote this from? In my first post I showed that McCain is for abortion in cases of rape, incest, and mother's health. And I asked if someone knows if he changed his stance on it... and jmj, you said no.

but then you're quote says bans abortion with no exception for rape or incest. I'm confused!!!

[jmjtina]

dude, i was surprised as you were.

It was from the Naral website. (Pro-Choice America)

Now, as much as I would like to agree with Naral on this point, I wanted to find something a bit more.......solid, like a voting record or statement.

I am now searching for it. (the change in his campaign that NARAL is referring to)

So I just need to find it.

but this is good news! However, the Catholic wing would have been singing about this loud and proud which makes me question NARAL's jumping to conclusions in regards to "the" statement.

**BTW, the point of "quoting" NARAL was to point out that McCain is not pro-choice by NARAL: the biggest Pro-choice group in the nation **

Edited October 23, 2008 by jmjtina

[jmjtina]

btw, I got it from [b][url="http://action.prochoiceamerica.org/site/PageServer?pagename=McCainPalinVideo"]here[/url][/b][u][/u]

[kamiller42]

[quote name='flip' post='1683640' date='Oct 22 2008, 06:10 PM']Ok, I found this stuff on McCain... does anyone know if he has changed his thoughts since 2000?[/quote]
You little scandal monger you. You go boy!

If you are really interested in McCain's position on life issues, why not [url="http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/issues/95b18512-d5b6-456e-90a2-12028d71df58.htm"]try checking his site[/url]? Too obvious?

[quote][b]Abortion OK if raped; and no testing for rape[/b]
[b]Overturn Roe v. Wade, but keep incest & rape exceptions[/b]
[b]Restrict abortions; no partial-birth; no public funding[/b]
[b]Prosecute abortion doctors, not women who get them[/b][/quote]
That is quite a list. Too bad it means little to nothing. Why? Because if Roe v. Wade is overturned, the issues goes back to the states. It's not going to matter if McCain believes abortion is okay in cases of rape, organ transplants, or alien abductions. It's a state matter. Enforcement of the law would be a state matter.

Now let's look at the alternative, Obama. He believes abortion is okay in cases of rape, health of the woman threatened, Saturday night sleepovers, and even during child birth. And yes, all this "freedom" would be enforced by the federal government, which means his sense of justice will reach into the states.