Should We Even Attempt To Save Society?

[peregrinus_WA]

From my [url="http://peregrinus.stblogs.com/"]blog[/url]:

[quote][b][url="http://peregrinus.stblogs.com/2008/11/07/should-we-even-attempt-to-save-society/"]Should We Even Attempt to Save Society?[/url][/b]

I know, I know. It is a loaded question, but one that needs to be asked.With all the ills infecting society today, I am wondering if it is worth saving or even has the possibility of being saved.

As I have said before, I do believe that society is one the verge of implosion from the weight of Relativism, Materialism, and Liberalism, but I do see other factors also weighing on society that would probably not go away without a complete collapse.

One of the main factors is globalization. This globalization can be divided into two areas: Capitalism and Governance. Global Capitalism has all but destroyed self-sufficiency of the human race. Almost everything is provided by the “Global Market” and most do not know how, and/or do not want to, fend for themselves. They rather go to the store to buy what they need and work for big corporations to allow them the ability (i.e wages) to obtain what they need. The second is Governance. It is coming to the point where we are not allowed to have free-will to make our own decisions. Much of that is being taken away by governments and increasingly by regional/continental (i.e. the EUC), and even world (i.e the UN) governmental bodies.

I do believe the effects of globalization, as I said before, magnifies problem by making local issues reverberate throughout the world (And, with the latest economic situation, this is becoming increasingly apparent) . I also believe that, unlike Relativism and Materialism, that Globalization probably not be reversed without society/civilization collapsing thus breaking the bonds that allows globalization to exist. Note: I did not include Liberalism with Relativism and Materialism here due to the close relationship it has with Global Governance.

Liberalism also is a cause of a second factor which is also contributing to the implosion and that is the population decline that is being foisted on the world by “population control”. In many places, the birth rate has fallen so far below the replacement point that whole populations are in danger of being damaged beyond repair. The average age is rising to the point where it will become impossible to even recover from this decline. One example is Russia. There is some projections that they may lose as much as 1/3 of their current population by the year 2050. In fact, I have read reports that the average age of females in Russia is in their 40’s. If we cannot reverse “population control” whole populations (countries) may disappear from the face of the earth.

We need to be ready for anything and that means to rediscover self-reliance and more reliance at the local (community) level rather than the global level. Even if society does not implode, breaking all bonds that are weighing down society will make us better in the long run.

Should We Even Attempt to Save Society? Maybe, but I am going to leave that question unanswered. Right now, I do not really know.[/quote]This is only the latest in my rants on society.

Edited November 9, 2008 by peregrinus_WA

[CatherineM]

We aren't in the business of saving society. We are in the business of saving souls. This is why the Vatican has become increasingly opposed to Liberation Theology.

[peregrinus_WA]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1698054' date='Nov 8 2008, 11:49 PM']We aren't in the business of saving society. We are in the business of saving souls. This is why the Vatican has become increasingly opposed to Liberation Theology.[/quote]This has nothing to do with Liberation Theology which I know full well has been condemned by the Holy See.

What I am saying is a general question since society is on the verge (if not already) implosion from the perversions that are so rampant. Should we attempt to redeem society or should we let it implode (like the Roman Empire) and rebuild under a true Catholic framework.

[Apotheoun]

[The laity] exercise the apostolate in fact by their activity directed to the evangelization and sanctification of men and to the penetrating and perfecting of the temporal order through the spirit of the Gospel. In this way, their temporal activity openly bears witness to Christ and promotes the salvation of men. Since the laity, in accordance with their state of life, live in the midst of the world and its concerns, they are called by God to exercise their apostolate in the world like leaven, with the ardor of the spirit of Christ.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='peregrinus_WA' post='1698057' date='Nov 8 2008, 09:56 PM']This has nothing to do with Liberation Theology which I know full well has been condemned by the Holy See.

What I am saying is a general question since society is on the verge (if not already) implosion from the perversions that are so rampant. Should we attempt to redeem society or should we let it implode (like the Roman Empire) and rebuild under a true Catholic framework.[/quote]

Sorry, I was using Liberation Theology as an example, not in regard to your post. Frankly, I'm not sure there is much that we can actually do to save society. I would not be surprised to see even worse diseases than AIDS from running rampant. I think we have the real risk of genetically engineering some kind of horrible virus. All we can do is keep speaking the truth, and hope that when things get bad enough, people will start to listen.

[Apotheoun]

It is our duty as Catholics to infuse Christian principles into society.

[tinytherese]

On the spin off of Angel Force, Knights of St. Michael, Chris on the show keeps saying this one quote.

"Evil triumphs when good people do nothing" or something extremely similar to that. We shouldn't just be sitting around and whinning but actually get out there and proclaim the gospel in word and deed, no matter what our vocation is.

Edited November 9, 2008 by tinytherese

[peregrinus_WA]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1698064' date='Nov 9 2008, 12:15 AM']Sorry, I was using Liberation Theology as an example, not in regard to your post. Frankly, I'm not sure there is much that we can actually do to save society. I would not be surprised to see even worse diseases than AIDS from running rampant. I think we have the real risk of genetically engineering some kind of horrible virus. All we can do is keep speaking the truth, and hope that when things get bad enough, people will start to listen.[/quote]No problem. I regular get wacked over on CAF from both ends of the spectrum (I tend to "aggitate" the extreemists there).

My blog has quite a few rants on society (especially lately)

Edited November 9, 2008 by peregrinus_WA

[CatherineM]

I agree that we should continue to do everything we can, and stand witness. I'm just not optimistic. I serve on a provincial human trafficking committee, and some of the things I see really scare me. I get so shocked to see what humans can do to each other.

[eagle_eye222001]

Should we attempt to save society?




NO. We should just give up as it says in Matthew 78:15

[Era Might]

[quote]And though the last lights off the black West went
Oh, morning, at the brown brink eastward, springs—
Because the Holy Ghost over the bent
World broods with warm breast and with ah! bright wings.

--Gerard Manley Hopkins, "God's Grandeur"[/quote]
Every generation goes through its own crises. Imagine if you lived through Nazism. It would have been hard to believe that the world would be standing very long. But here we are today, and Nazism is long dead.

There is always hope, so long as the Holy Spirit is hovering over the world. History moves slowly, but it does move.

[TotusTuusMaria]

No, we should not attempt to save society because[i] we [/i]won't be able to. We should with Christ attempt to save society, and of course we are going to triumph. We should go out, like Apo and tinytherese said, and let Christ use us. We must influence, as Christians, society. We are a people of hope.

[Galloglasses' Alt]

Stop being so bloody defeatist, everyone.

Its your society.

You have an obligation to fix it, even if it seems impossible to accomplish.

I'm seeing traditional Irish Society and values collapsing left right and centre, (and no where was this more noticeable then in a recent mock election our school had to see who would rather Obama or McCain), I'll be damned, (figuratively speaking... I hope), if I do not do something to stop the decline or, God Willing, reverse it.

Stop trying to worm your way out of the hopelessness of western civilisation by finding excuses to ignore it with spirituality, its your duty as a Catholic citizen of your respective nation to apply the Teachings of Christ to your everyday life and encourage others to do so. This world means nothing, or course it doesn't, what you do, how you react, and how hard you try to do the right thing even if tis above and beyond you does.

Edited November 9, 2008 by Galloglasses' Alt

[Galloglasses' Alt]

-deleted double post-

Edited November 9, 2008 by Galloglasses' Alt

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1698096' date='Nov 8 2008, 11:40 PM']Every generation goes through its own crises. Imagine if you lived through Nazism. It would have been hard to believe that the world would be standing very long. But here we are today, and Nazism is long dead.

There is always hope, so long as the Holy Spirit is hovering over the world. History moves slowly, but it does move.[/quote]
That's a sweet poem

[quote name='Galloglasses' Alt' post='1698226' date='Nov 9 2008, 12:32 PM']Stop being so bloody defeatist, everyone.

Its your society.

You have an obligation to fix it, even if it seems impossible to accomplish.

I'm seeing traditional Irish Society and values collapsing left right and centre, (and no where was this more noticeable then in a recent mock election our school had to see who would rather Obama or McCain), I'll be damned, (figuratively speaking... I hope), if I do not do something to stop the decline or, God Willing, reverse it.

Stop trying to worm your way out of the hopelessness of western civilisation by finding excuses to ignore it with spirituality, its your duty as a Catholic citizen of your respective nation to apply the Teachings of Christ to your everyday life and encourage others to do so. This world means nothing, or course it doesn't, what you do, how you react, and how hard you try to do the right thing even if tis above and beyond you does.[/quote]
Smackdown. You put it well.
So did Apo...

So did a lot of others


Should we let society collapse? Lets try to think what impact that will have on our OWN lives as well as others...

[tinytherese]

Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta said, "Give the world the best you've got and it may never be enough. Give the world the best you've got anyway...

so in the end its between you and God. It was never between you and them anyway."

[Socrates]

[quote name='peregrinus_WA' post='1698048' date='Nov 8 2008, 11:40 PM']From my [url="http://peregrinus.stblogs.com/"]blog[/url]:

This is only the latest in my rants on society.[/quote]
With all due respect, your title question, "should we even attempt to save society?" is absurd.

As Christians, of course we should attempt to save society!
Not that saving "society," as some sociological abstraction, should be our ultimate goal, but our goal on this earth as Christians is, as has been pointed out by others here, saving souls.
If we are successful in saving souls for Christ, then society itself will by necessity likewise be redeemed for Christ.
Indeed, we are all called as Catholics to "[i]Instaurare omnia in Christo[/i]" - "to restore all things in Christ."

It's not clear exactly what you mean here by "saving society." "Society" is in reality composed of individual human beings living together on earth. Man is a social creature, and by nature lives in society. Unless you truly live your entire life alone in a cave, you too are part of "society" - whether you like it or not.

If we as Christians are really living our mission to bring souls to Christ, this will have the effect of converting society to Christ. You can't save souls without having effect on society, and we can't save society without saving souls.

As the Gospels and countless encyclicals should make clear, Christians should work to make all areas of life more Christian - to by a light to the nations, a shining city on a hill.

Christ's original Apostles certainly seemed to face an uphill battle - Most of the world followed various forms of paganism, mostly greatly at odds with Christian belief and morality. Most of the western world was ruled by the pagan and oppressive Roman Empire, which would soon begin a vicious persecution of Christians. The religious leaders of the Jews had rejected the Christ and put Him to death, and were bent on persecuting His followers.

The problem isn't that "society" today is less redeemable, but maybe that modern Christians are less zealous and more defeatist - in other words, have less Faith.

And your statement about "letting the Roman Empire implode" really is not accurate. Though persecuted, Christians gradually were able Christianize and convert pagan Roman Society, culminating in the empire itself becoming officially Christian. The pagan elements of Roman society would bring about their own demise, but it is not truthful to talk as though early Christians simply abandoned society to let it "implode."

Many "conservative Catholics" (myself included) need to spend less time in defeatist wailing and whining, and more time restoring all things in Christ.

[kafka]

[quote name='peregrinus_WA' post='1698057' date='Nov 8 2008, 10:56 PM']What I am saying is a general question since society is on the verge (if not already) implosion from the perversions that are so rampant. Should we attempt to redeem society or should we let it implode (like the Roman Empire) and rebuild under a true Catholic framework.[/quote]
Sorry if I sound a bit heavy, but to make an honest assessment with lack of false hope can be overwhelming.

I like your honest reflections. In my opinion if any man make an honest assessment of the state of the Church and the world today as compared to all of history, he would come to the conclusion that we are living in unique times. There is no questioning the mass scale of serious sins committed, the lack of simplicity in the hearts and minds of men, the lack of worship of God in public and private life, general moral decay, and disorder in the family and society. Where I think you go a bit wrong is melting it down to ideologies. The ideologies such as relatavism, globalization, etc. are a result of a much deeper problem, namely serious sins committed on a mass scale. Like I said to make an honest assessment with lack of false hope can be overwhelming.

At this point there is nothing we humans can do to fix things. God will get involved in some stupendous ways. The Holy Spirit is hard at work in the Church & world. The times we live in are part of a larger, more sublime plan than any person(s) could contrive. Eventually, God will establish His kingdom on earth as is prayed for in the Our Father. What we need to do is find our place or our so called destiny and cooperate with God's plan, however active or non-active it may be.
[quote name='Era Might' post='1698096' date='Nov 8 2008, 11:40 PM']Every generation goes through its own crises. Imagine if you lived through Nazism. It would have been hard to believe that the world would be standing very long. But here we are today, and Nazism is long dead.[/quote]
True each generation must face something, but the crisis in the Church and the world today is unprecedented.

[quote name='Galloglasses' Alt' post='1698226' date='Nov 9 2008, 12:32 PM']Stop trying to worm your way out of the hopelessness of western civilisation by finding excuses to ignore it with spirituality, its your duty as a Catholic citizen of your respective nation to apply the Teachings of Christ to your everyday life and encourage others to do so. This world means nothing, or course it doesn't, what you do, how you react, and how hard you try to do the right thing even if tis above and beyond you does.[/quote]
I dont think he is trying to worm his way out of anything. There is nothing wrong with spirituality, not everyone is called to an active life.

[quote name='Socrates' post='1698608' date='Nov 9 2008, 09:18 PM']With all due respect, your title question, "should we even attempt to save society?" is absurd.

It's not clear exactly what you mean here by "saving society." "Society" is in reality composed of individual human beings living together on earth. Man is a social creature, and by nature lives in society. Unless you truly live your entire life alone in a cave, you too are part of "society" - whether you like it or not.


The problem isn't that "society" today is less redeemable, but maybe that modern Christians are less zealous and more defeatist - in other words, have less Faith.[/quote]
The title of his blog was not absurd. You were absurd for thinking it absurd. Whether he knew it or not it is a rhetorical question.

It is clear what he means by saving society.

The problems of the Church and the world today go much deeper than lack of zeal on the part of modern Christians.

Edited November 10, 2008 by kafka

[peregrinus_WA]

[quote name='kafka' post='1698989' date='Nov 10 2008, 03:52 PM']I like your honest reflections. In my opinion if any man make an honest assessment of the state of the Church and the world today as compared to all of history, he would come to the conclusion that we are living in unique times.[/quote]I see the Church, as a whole, as not part of the implosion and I actually see them in the same role as with the collapse of Rome. Yes, there are parts that will die and whither, but that group (i.e CTA, VOTF and the like) is already nearing extinction.

[LouisvilleFan]

Thank God the Great Commission is optional.