Chauvanism

[Galloglasses' Alt]

Well here's more controversy and drama for the fire.

Anyone been reading the chivalry thread will have noticed the mini-debate over the definitions of Feminism, the varied aspects of broad code of honour known as chivalry and how it differs from Chuvanism.

Now here is a kicker.

I have always heard the word Chuvanist voiced in a derogatory nature, its basically a by-word for 'Sexist' or 'Mysoginistic' or just 'Anti-Feminist' and is inherently bad.

I actually have no definition of chuvanism myself so I'm interested here. What do you say Chuvanism is and is it neccesarily bad?

[QUE DRAMA]

[Socrates]

Chauvinism originally meant excessive nationalism or jingoism - thinking one's own country was vastly superior to everyone else's.

This spawned the term "male chauvinist" used by feminists - meaning the attitude that the male sex was superior - as in "male chauvinist pig."

[HisChildForever]

[HisChildForever]

Dictionary.com

[quote]male chauvinist 
–noun a male who patronizes, disparages, or otherwise denigrates females in the belief that they are inferior to males and thus deserving of less than equal treatment or benefit.[/quote]

Yes, I would say that is bad, and contrary to what the Church teaches.

[IrishSalesian]

chau⋅vin⋅ism   [shoh-vuh-niz-uhm]
–noun
1. zealous and aggressive patriotism or blind enthusiasm for military glory.
2. biased devotion to any group, attitude, or cause.

male chauvinist 
–noun
a male who patronizes, disparages, or otherwise denigrates females in the belief that they are inferior to males and thus deserving of less than equal treatment or benefit.

[url="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/male%20chauvinist"]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/male%20chauvinist[/url]

[HisChildForever]

Yeah, I don't see any debate here.

Unless someone agrees that women are inferior to men and deserve less than equal treatment?

[Maximilianus]

Wouldn't a radical feminist be a female chauvinist?

Edited November 21, 2008 by Maximilianus

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Maximilianus' post='1706675' date='Nov 21 2008, 04:11 AM']Wouldn't a radical feminist be a female chauvinist?[/quote]

No.

[quote]Radical feminism is a philosophy emphasizing the patriarchal roots of inequality between men and women, or, more specifically, social dominance of women by men. Radical feminism views patriarchy as dividing rights, privileges and power primarily by gender, and as a result oppressing women and privileging men.

Radical feminists tend to be more militant in their approach (radical as "getting to the root"). Radical feminism opposes existing political and social organization in general because it is inherently tied to patriarchy. Thus, radical feminists tend to be skeptical of political action within the current system, and instead support cultural change that undermines patriarchy and associated hierarchical structures.

Radical feminism opposes patriarchy, not men. To equate radical feminism to man-hating is to assume that patriarchy and men are inseparable, philosophically and politically.[/quote]
[url="http://womenshistory.about.com/od/feminism/g/radicalfeminism.htm"]http://womenshistory.about.com/od/feminism...calfeminism.htm[/url]

[picchick]

I think that the term feminism has gotten a bad rap. And I know that people are going to go for the "popular" meaning of the phrase.

One can be a true feminist and still be Catholic? Why? Because being a feminist is being pro-woman in a sense. I love being a woman. We are different than men. I have no desire to be like a man and make my body like a man. I am free, independent, and self-sufficient. I love the fact that as a woman, I can bear a child inside of me. That is cool. It makes me different than men. Feminism is standing up for being female.

Do I need man? Yes, just as much as he needs me. We are human and we need each other.

Women believe that they are superior to men and I mean in a serious manner and do not consider the sexes to be equal can be considered chauvanistic, in my opinion. It can work both ways.

[Galloglasses' Alt]

To add more fuel to the fire.

So if a man is proud of being a man, (essentially, like how a woman, as picchick empathised, can be proud to be a woman), does that make him Chuvanist in a sense?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Galloglasses' Alt' post='1707110' date='Nov 21 2008, 12:48 PM']To add more fuel to the fire.

So if a man is proud of being a man, (essentially, like how a woman, as picchick empathised, can be proud to be a woman), does that make him Chuvanist in a sense?[/quote]

No. Being proud of your gender does not automatically mean you view the other gender as inferior.

[picchick]

[quote name='Galloglasses' Alt' post='1707110' date='Nov 21 2008, 11:48 AM']To add more fuel to the fire.

So if a man is proud of being a man, (essentially, like how a woman, as picchick empathised, can be proud to be a woman), does that make him Chuvanist in a sense?[/quote]

No that is not it at all. I think a man is chauvanistic when he starts treating me like someone beneath him because I am a woman. He does not act this way towards other men, he is doing it based on the fact that I am a woman.

I like a man who is confident and proud to be who he is. I think that if people are secure in themselves, it is a whole lot better to talk and get a long with them.

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+

[url="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455835,00.html"]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455835,00.html[/url]

[Galloglasses' Alt]

Ok, yer man was going a bit far off course there.

[chloeaustyn]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1707367' date='Nov 21 2008, 05:13 PM']+J.M.J.+

[url="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455835,00.html"]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455835,00.html[/url]
[/quote]

Haha! More like desperate and socially challenged mayor of the year. Those are the thoughts you keep in the deep dark recesses of your mind, not shout out to the world, Senor Mayor.

[Winchester]

I think it's precious that you women have opinions.

[Maximilianus]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1707006' date='Nov 21 2008, 11:35 AM']No.


[url="http://womenshistory.about.com/od/feminism/g/radicalfeminism.htm"]http://womenshistory.about.com/od/feminism...calfeminism.htm[/url][/quote]

That definition given was rather benign.
Radical feminism encompasses a lot more than that.

I agree that radical feminism isn't the same as female chauvinism.

[HisChildForever]

That article was disgusting. What a foul pig of a man.

[chloeaustyn]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1708073' date='Nov 22 2008, 08:39 PM']That article was disgusting. What a foul pig of a man.[/quote]

While that's true, I almost can't hold it against him... hear me out here-
If he's dense enough to make that kind of statement, I hardly think he knows what he's talking about in the first place. I don't think it was out of spite on his part so much as just social ineptness and a possible need of a good therapist.

Which, granted, doesn't make it acceptable, but rather than get mad, I think it would get our point across better to just blow it off and laugh. He's not worth taking seriously.

[HisChildForever]

Good point.