lilac_angel Posted March 13, 2004 Posted March 13, 2004 Does anyone have any links to webpages or any info denouncing SSPX and pointing out the problems with it?
phatcatholic Posted March 13, 2004 Posted March 13, 2004 a wealth of links and information can be found [b][url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ389.HTM"]here[/url][/b]
popestpiusx Posted March 14, 2004 Posted March 14, 2004 What you get on that sight is a mixed bad of links and articles. Some are quite good, others less so, still others have holes in them a mile wide.
popestpiusx Posted March 14, 2004 Posted March 14, 2004 Furthurmore, dear lilac, if you are already convinced that the SSPX needs denouncing, I would hope that you have reasons for it. Just a thought. And for the record, I am not in any way shape or form affiliated with the SSPX. My namesake is the sainted Pope, not the society.
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted March 14, 2004 Posted March 14, 2004 SSPX is a schismatic group, rejecting JP II, Vatican II, and the Novus Ordo.
Hananiah Posted March 14, 2004 Posted March 14, 2004 Here is a dialogue with a member of the SSPX. It demonstrates the errors of the SSPX position quite succinctly. [url="http://www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/DiscussionSSPX.asp"]http://www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/DiscussionSSPX.asp[/url]
popestpiusx Posted March 15, 2004 Posted March 15, 2004 thedude, Those are rather broad accusations. Care to elaborate?
popestpiusx Posted March 15, 2004 Posted March 15, 2004 (edited) hananiah, That is a most interesting link. One of the best I have seen. I share many (though not all) of the same concerns about the society as Mr. Sungenis. What I find to be nteresting though is that the Mark fellow does not accurately present the SSPX position on some of these matters. Even so, it is a good dialogue and I think Mr. Sungenis comes out ahead in the end. Edited March 15, 2004 by popestpiusx
vianney Posted March 15, 2004 Posted March 15, 2004 I totally disagree with that debate. I think the Pope is wonderful and is an amazing man. They both bash the Pope and basically say he is not a good Pope, one of the worst in history etc etc....Shame on them
popestpiusx Posted March 15, 2004 Posted March 15, 2004 vianney, What is being discussed is not their opinion of the pope but rather their argument over the legitimacy of the SSPX. Besiedes that, what Sungenis has problems with are not doctrinal statements, nor disciplinary norms, but rather purdential decisions made by the Holy Father. These are perfectly open to debate and ones disagreement with them does not make one a bad Catholic.
lilac_angel Posted March 15, 2004 Author Posted March 15, 2004 Thanks, everyone, for the info so far.
vianney Posted March 15, 2004 Posted March 15, 2004 As it is true they are debating the differences between SSPX and Catholic Church they are still at the same time bashing the Pope. I would have to disagree with both of them and I think that the Pope is doing a wondeful job. I think he has guided the Church beautifully and I think the argument got disrespectful quick. A Koran Kisser??? The Anti Christ??? and they are not bashing the Pope? Shame on them...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 15, 2004 Posted March 15, 2004 [url="http://members.lycos.co.uk/jloughnan/index.htm"]http://members.lycos.co.uk/jloughnan/index.htm[/url]
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 15, 2004 Posted March 15, 2004 This site is kind of a mess, but it's dedicated to this issue. [url="http://jloughnan.tripod.com/index.htm"]http://jloughnan.tripod.com/index.htm[/url]
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 15, 2004 Posted March 15, 2004 haha, sorry cmom! we posted the same site, it just has two different URL's I guess.
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted March 16, 2004 Posted March 16, 2004 Elaboration: They believe the Novus Ordo is a Protestant service in disguise, made to appease non-Catholics. They believe that Vatican II was heretical and an attempt to undermine Catholic theology so as to be more ecumenical. They believe John Paul II is not the true sucessor to St. Peter and that they don't need to obey his commands.
popestpiusx Posted March 16, 2004 Posted March 16, 2004 Dear thedude, What you have given is called an accusation, not an elaboration. Christian charity and justice demand that if we are going to make an accusation, that at the very least we should be able to substantiate our claim. Therefore I ask again, but let me be more specific. Can you provide examples or evidence that the SSPX is in fact guilty of what you say?
popestpiusx Posted March 16, 2004 Posted March 16, 2004 Just for the record (again) I am not affiliatedwith the SSPx, nor do I agree with many of their arguments. However, if one is going to accuse them of something then for pete's sake have a reason for it.
cmotherofpirl Posted March 16, 2004 Posted March 16, 2004 Thedude has listed the characteristics of the SSPX. Go read sspx sites. THis is not a topic for this debate on this board, since its the apologetics section, and phatmass is faithful to the Magisterium of the Church.
popestpiusx Posted March 16, 2004 Posted March 16, 2004 (edited) thedue has not listed the characteristics of the sspx. He has listed characteristics and predicated them upon the SSPX. He has done so in a public forum and therefore it is perfectly within reason to ask for a justification of these accusations. But since it is I who seem to be on trial here, I will provide one example how how one of these "Characteristics" is not predicable upon the SSPX. Consider the following: "The Society of Saint Pius X professes filial devotion and loyalty to Pope John Paul II, the Successor of Saint Peter and the Vicar of Christ. The priests of the Society pray for His Holiness and the local Ordinary at every Mass they celebrate." This is cut and pasted directly off the official SSPX web site. I do not care one bit what some less informed "affiliates" of the SSPX believe. If one does not hold JPII to be the Pope, one is not ordained in the SSPX. Therefore thedude's statement "They believe John Paul II is not the true sucessor to St. Peter and that they don't need to obey his commands " is manifestly incorrect. And because he has stated it in a public forum, justice demands a retraction. That is why I am pushing him to provide evidence to support his accusations. Is that clear, dearest mother? To do less would be violate Christian justice and charity? If the SSPX is in fact outside the fold, then how is this not a topic for apologetics? If you hope to convert them then you had better know what they actually believe. Edited March 16, 2004 by popestpiusx
Recommended Posts