Slain In The Spirit?

[Paladin D]

Slain in the Spirit, when an anointed individual sweeps his hand or touches someone and they fall down. Well I got a question...

Does the Church teach that this is possible? If so, how common is it inside the Church?

...also, can something similar to this be used, like some hypnotic trick?

[the_rev]

Well this one lady gets "slained in the spirit" in our parish. When she recieves the annoiting of the sick at the healing mass, recieves communion, and goes to the special blessing Father Dave gives after adoration, she gets slained.

Once I asked God, when I was doubting him, If your really there show me you are. The next day I witnessed this lady being "slained"

[God Conquers]

I'm not sure the Church, in Her wisdom, would have a specific teaching on this.

All I know is that it does happen, I've seen it happen alot, and it almost happenned to me.

As for something similar, like hypnotics being used, I don't understand the wuestion... used for what?

[Paladin D]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='Mar 15 2004, 12:30 AM'] I'm not sure the Church, in Her wisdom, would have a specific teaching on this.

All I know is that it does happen, I've seen it happen alot, and it almost happenned to me.

As for something similar, like hypnotics being used, I don't understand the wuestion... used for what? [/quote]
Well, aren't there some people who use hypnotic tricks to make someone feel as if they were slain in the Spirit?

[God Conquers]

hmmm, I dunno. Thanks for clarifying though!

[God Conquers]

It's possible that the same effect can be reached through scientific means (ie psychological ones). I think that the amazing thing is the spontenaity of being slain in the spirit, there is no preparation, or hypnosis involved, just the Spirit, so its still a pretty unique event.

[Paladin D]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='Mar 15 2004, 10:18 AM'] It's possible that the same effect can be reached through scientific means (ie psychological ones). I think that the amazing thing is the spontenaity of being slain in the spirit, there is no preparation, or hypnosis involved, just the Spirit, so its still a pretty unique event. [/quote]
How about Benny Hinn?

[God Conquers]

Who am I to say? Maybe the Spirit is moving in these people. Maybe they're actors, maybe it's the heat, maybe its the mob or peer pressure.

Bottom line is this: Being slain in the spirit is not something that happens so that people can watch and think someone is holy, or that God is real, because if an outsider sees it, it usually has quite the opposite effect, they're totally freaked out.

It's a personal experience. So I say, let individuals decide for themselves. If it really happens by a new movement of the Holy Spirit, then God Bless them and I hope it changes their lives, gives them new insight into God's love for them.

If not... that's their problem.

[popestpiusx]

Fr. Hardon said the following about that sort of thing (what he calls pentecostalism):
The fundamental problem it (Pentacostalism) creates is the absolute conviction of devoted Pentecostals that they have actually received a charismatic visitation of the Holy Spirit. I am not referring to such external phenomena as the gift of tongues, but of the deeply inward certitude that a person has been the object of a preternatural infusion, with stress on the infusion of preternatural insight, i.e., in the cognitive order. This is an astounding assertion, and the only thing unremarkable about it that so many Pentecostals are now firmly convinced they have been so enlightened...
The dilemma this raises can be easily stated:
Either the Pentecostal experience really confers preternatural insight (at least among its leaders), or the experience is quite natural, while certainly allowing for the normal operations of divine grace...
Are the so-called charismata truly charismatic? If they are, then we stand in the presence of a cosmic miracle, more stupendous in proportion - by reason of sheer numbers - than anything the Church has seen, I would say, even in apostolic times.
But if the experiences are not authentically charismatic, then, again, we stand in the presence of a growing multitude of persons who believe themselves charismatically led by the Holy Spirit. They will make drastic decisions, institute revolutionary changes, or act in a host of other ways - firmly convinced they are responding to a special divine impulse whereas in reality they are acting in response to quite ordinary, and certainly less infallible, motions of the human spirit.
At this point we could begin a completely separate analysis, namely, of the accumulating evidence that the impulses which the Pentecostal leaders consider charismatic are suspiciously very human. "
************************************************************************

[popestpiusx]

Another Fr. Hardon quote:

Q. Is the charismatic practice known as "baptism in the Holy Spirit" 1) an integral part of either the sacrament of Baptism or Confirmation, 2) a new sacrament, 3) a part of the liturgy, or 4) an authentic Catholic practice?
-K.A.K., Michigan
A.No, the charismatic practice of baptism in the Holy Spirit is not: 1) an integral part of either the sacrament of Baptism or Confirmation, 2) a new sacrament, 3) a part of the liturgy, or 4) an authentic Catholic practice.
What is called the "baptism in the Holy Spirit" is variously interpreted by charismatics. The most common interpretation is the belief that some people receive what is called the baptism of the Holy Spirit. These would be persons who receive certain extraordinary gifts, such as those received by the Apostles on Pentecost Sunday. This claim is purely gratuitous. It is part of a larger claim by some charismatics. They say the Church of the future will be the Church of the Holy Spirit and no longer the Church of the hierarchy and the sacraments instituted by Christ.

[BLAZEr]

I just wonder, how come you never see any Missionaries of Charity being slain in the spirit? They certainly are examples of holiness, and the Holy Spirit in their lives is quite evident. How come they aren't falling down all over themselves?

Now, I've been "slain in the Spirit" twice. Once while a woman was praying with me, and another time in my friends living room while she was praying with me. I'm not sure if it was from the Holy Spirit or not, but neither time did it produce any fruit that I could see. It was like a restful prayer, but certainly no evidence of a powerful anointing of the Holy Spirit.

[popestpiusx]

Blazer,
I understood the "slain in the spirit" to be something other than simple restfulness. I really don't know though. You could be correct.

[BLAZEr]

THe first time it happened to me I was praying standing up, and then when I woke up I was lying on the floor. I don't know how long I was down there.

The second time I was sitting on the couch and she was praying over me and I fell backward, when I woke up she was still praying over me, It couldn't have been longer than a couple of minutes.

Both times I felt really rested.

[God Conquers]

I think your experience is the most common BLAZEr, many of my friends speak of the great peace and rest it brings about, not any "supernatural insight".

[Jake Huether]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='Mar 16 2004, 07:42 AM'] I think your experience is the most common BLAZEr, many of my friends speak of the great peace and rest it brings about, not any "supernatural insight".

[/quote]
Ditto. Happened to me too. Same thing.


On the "Baptism in the Holy Spirit" better termed "the release of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit"... Since some might find the term "Baptism" confusing, because Catholics acknowledge only one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

popestpiusx, I suggest you do a search on this site. We had a very informational dialogue about this (a 10+ page dialogue mind you).

I think it is noteworthy that Fr. Cantalamessa has been the Papal preacher to Pope John Paul II's Pontifical household since 1980. And he has a teaching on this outpouring of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

[url="http://www.catholic-jhb.org.za/articles/baptism.htm#BAPTISM%20IN%20THE%20HOLY%20SPIRIT"]http://www.catholic-jhb.org.za/articles/ba...20HOLY%20SPIRIT[/url]

Sure, it doesn't make it "Catholic doctrine", but the origins are certainly Catholic. The re-newal was Penticostal. But a re-newal, is nothing new.

[Paladin D]

I was [b]"slained in the spirit"[/b] so to speak at a Benny Hinn Crusade a while ago... I just fell down. When some people fell on my legs, it didn't hurt at all, I just felt pressure.

Not sure if it was really the Holy Spirit, or what.

[popestpiusx]

Jake,
Fr. Cantalamessa is no mainstay of orthodoxy. For instance, in his Good Friday sermon (March 29, 2002) at St. Peter's Basilica (with the Holy Father and numerous other Vatican officials in attendance) he stated that other religions “are not merely tolerated by God but positively willed by him as expressions of the inexhaustible richness of his grace and his will for everyone to be saved." This is what is referred to as "material heresy". To say that God has [b]positively[/b] willed other religions is absurd.

If the renewal was pentecostal (which I agree that it was), then it was not in fact Catholic. I'll post another article that I have on it later (when I find it).

Until then, here is another tidbit from Fr. Hardon (taken from an article entitled "Mystics and Mysticism"):
Mystics may finally be persons who manifest charismatic phenomena. Such phenomena do not occur in the normal development of the spiritual life. They are called charisms because they are given by God for the benefit of others than the mystic. In other words, these phenomena are apostolic by nature. They may be true miracles, like private revelations, divine locutions, the stigmata, speaking in tongues, levitation, transportation through space, knowing events at a great distance of space, the gift of prophecy.
It is here, especially, that we must carefully distinguish between the mystic and these phenomena. It does not follow that because a person has these phenomenal gifts that he or she is necessarily either very holy or even gifted with infused contemplation. The single most important thing to remember about these charismatic gifts is that they are not for the benefit of the person who possesses them. If genuine, such charismata are always for the benefit of others. They are apostolic and not personal gifts from God.
We shall say more on the subject before this conference is over. For the present, it is enough to note that what are commonly called mystical phenomena may be produced by persons and forces that are not only not spiritual or supernatural. They may be abnormal indeed, but either the result of natural, psychic powers, or even demonic in their origin.


I, for one, will stick with Fr. Hardon's assesment.

Edited March 16, 2004 by popestpiusx

[IcePrincessKRS]

At a Steubenville conference my brother was slain in the Spirit. He said he was kneeling praying and sort of fell over, he tried to move and get up but he couldn't. He was sort of aware but unable to function. He said kids all around him were praying and some were praying over him--one girl was praying in Spanish and he could understand every word she said (he's never taken nor does he speak a word of Spanish, he took like a year of French). I hadn't thought of this before, but maybe what the girl was praying was some sort of praying in tongues and he was given the gift to understand it at that moment, or maybe it was just some special part of being slain in the Spirit. Some of you probably know that I don't really adhere to much of the more emotionally charged "charismatic" type things but I believe my brother's experience was born of something really given by the Holy Spirit because he's pretty much like I am and veers away from the more charismatic things and more towards the "traditional" (not traditional as in SSPX, but you get what I mean, right?)

Dislaimer: I'm not dissing anything of the Charismatic movement here, I just don't feel that its for me--I'm leery of it because I know people who have been adversely affected by it, but I don't deny that it does have good fruits as well. I'm just more of a quietly pray in Adoration kind of girl (as opposed to charismatic prayer meeting or FOP [festival of praise] that they have here in Steubenville).

[Jake Huether]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Mar 16 2004, 10:39 AM'] Jake,
Fr. Cantalamessa is no mainstay of orthodoxy. For instance, in his Good Friday sermon (March 29, 2002) at St. Peter's Basilica (with the Holy Father and numerous other Vatican officials in attendance) he stated that other religions “are not merely tolerated by God but positively willed by him as expressions of the inexhaustible richness of his grace and his will for everyone to be saved." This is what is referred to as "material heresy". To say that God has [b]positively[/b] willed other religions is absurd.

If the renewal was pentecostal (which I agree that it was), then it was not in fact Catholic. I'll post another article that I have on it later (when I find it).

Until then, here is another tidbit from Fr. Hardon (taken from an article entitled "Mystics and Mysticism"):
Mystics may finally be persons who manifest charismatic phenomena. Such phenomena do not occur in the normal development of the spiritual life. They are called charisms because they are given by God for the benefit of others than the mystic. In other words, these phenomena are apostolic by nature. They may be true miracles, like private revelations, divine locutions, the stigmata, speaking in tongues, levitation, transportation through space, knowing events at a great distance of space, the gift of prophecy.
It is here, especially, that we must carefully distinguish between the mystic and these phenomena. It does not follow that because a person has these phenomenal gifts that he or she is necessarily either very holy or even gifted with infused contemplation. The single most important thing to remember about these charismatic gifts is that they are not for the benefit of the person who possesses them. If genuine, such charismata are always for the benefit of others. They are apostolic and not personal gifts from God.
We shall say more on the subject before this conference is over. For the present, it is enough to note that what are commonly called mystical phenomena may be produced by persons and forces that are not only not spiritual or supernatural. They may be abnormal indeed, but either the result of natural, psychic powers, or even demonic in their origin.


I, for one, will stick with Fr. Hardon's assesment. [/quote]
Do you have a link so that we can verify what he actually said.

It's hard to tell. Not that I don't trust you or anything... But seriously, I can throw quotes around some text and say, Fr. such and such said whatever...

Our Holy Father, I don't believe, would tolerate such "heresy" within his ranks, unless it wasn't really heresy.

[God Conquers]

I don't think that that statement is heresy at all.

The Church teaches that other religions hold Truth, not the fullness, but some Truth. God posiitvely wills the revelation of Truth, and so indirectly positively wills other religions, not as oponents of the fullness of truth but as stepping stones towards it.