Frustrated With Bishop

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1731504' date='Dec 18 2008, 06:42 PM']that would be pretty cool if the Church did...the Church buildings, not so much, because they don't belong to us they belong to God...but all those earthly treasures in the Vatican Museum, the paintings, statues, etc. etc....when you think about it, [b]why do we need them[/b]?

Has anyone ever visited a convent run by the Missionaries of Charity? Their houses are completely empty of all worldy possessions. It is sooo impressive! The only room in their house that is decorated and filled with valuables is the CHAPEL, and that's because [b]it's all for the Glory of God[/b]...[/quote]

I think you answered your own question.

Edited December 18, 2008 by CatholicCid

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
in that thread i mentioned, it had some great links:
[url="http://davidmacd.com/catholic/isn_church_rich.htm"]http://davidmacd.com/catholic/isn_church_rich.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5743/answers2.html"]http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5743/answers2.html[/url] - #4 & #5
[url="http://web.archive.org/web/20060112200525/http://www.catholicapologetics.net/WORLDLINESS.htm"]http://web.archive.org/web/20060112200525/...WORLDLINESS.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.cuf.org/Faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=242"]Catholics United for the Faith[/url]

[puellapaschalis]

A donkey isn't going to be a great mode of transport for a Papa in his eighties. Not to mention that it would have made that trip to the USA somewhat difficult

The Pope has nothing and has possibly the worst job in the world. Can we not let him have a comfy place to sit when he's being driven around? It's not like he's leading us astray. When we get bishops leading us astray, then I'll go snitching their cars away or something.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1731527' date='Dec 18 2008, 05:54 PM']I think you answered your own question.[/quote]
not really. I specifically said those things which we use in our worship of God, the Church Buildings, Chalices, etc...those things that aren't the personal possessions of our Bishops.....those aren't extravagant extras....those shouldn't be sold....but the excess should...the stuff we don't really need to possess...

...does riding around in a limo or driving a mercedes benz somehow give glory to God? Maybe it does...i don't know...but I think [b]for the good of souls[/b], the hierarchy should set a good example and live simpler...

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1731535' date='Dec 18 2008, 05:57 PM']A donkey isn't going to be a great mode of transport for a Papa in his eighties. Not to mention that it would have made that trip to the USA somewhat difficult

The Pope has nothing and has possibly the worst job in the world. Can we not let him have a comfy place to sit when he's being driven around? It's not like he's leading us astray. When we get bishops leading us astray, then I'll go snitching their cars away or something.[/quote]
well, i wasn't really saying the Pope should go traveling on a donkey...

...less luxurious cars are comfortable, too...

[dominicansoul]

i see and some i don't see the points being made here...

...and lil' red, i'll read up on those threads, and links...

..i'm on my way to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass!

Bye phamily!

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1731545' date='Dec 18 2008, 07:02 PM']not really. I specifically said those things which we use in our worship of God, the Church Buildings, Chalices, etc...those things that aren't the personal possessions of our Bishops.....those aren't extravagant extras....those shouldn't be sold....but the excess should...the stuff we don't really need to possess...

...does riding around in a limo or driving a mercedes benz somehow give glory to God? Maybe it does...i don't know...but I think [b]for the good of souls[/b], the hierarchy should set a good example and live simpler...[/quote]

Yes, but our worship does not have to be limited to just the Chapel. The Vatican museum, say, has a lot of great works that were made to give glory to God, yet they aren't in a chapel. If I recall correctly, the Vatican museum was itself one of the first public 'museums' so that everyone could come view the art. Such works do not belong to the Church, to be sold into private collections, instead they belong to the faithful who might see in them the Glory of God through the work and prayer of an artist.

[Pontifex]

Bishop's need big houses because many times they house many priests and seminarians, especially for ordinations, and big events. I have a bishop friend who only has one guest room and it really is a pain for him because he cannot be as hospitable as he would like.

The car issue: Clergy need reliable cars, we don't have time to tinker and to be consumed with maintenance problems. I guess driving a clunker would send a better message until it breaks down and you need your priest really quickly at the hospital. Many priests lease cars because they are low maintenance, reliable, and hassle free. Toyota Camry is my limit though. No avalons, lexus', mercedes, or jaguars, (although I'd really love to have a jag, they rock)

At the same time we should be conscious of how we live and seek to live simply. I serve a very poor parish, which makes me more acutely aware of my life. My kids really sweat my iphone and it makes me self conscious about it. I know they cant ever get one. I use it because it was given to me and it's extremely efficient for communication purposes, emails, etc.

Just some thoughts from the clergy eye,


Fr. Pfex

[cappie]

This is not a critism of the Bishop or of the original person who started the thread but I was reading it in the Tablet from U.K. about a bishop in England:

Devine intervention

IN HEAVEN, there may be many mansions: most bishops need only one, but naturally it
should meet reasonable levels of comfort and safety. Not so, it seems, the Bishop of Motherwell, Joseph Devine, who appears to have been living in little short of a hovel. He was
oblivious, but his staff were not and the whole structure has now been condemned and
torn down in a £650,000 project that involves replacing his residence with a brand new building on the same site in Hamilton.

“He thought the place was a bit damp, but assumed that’s what you get with old houses,”
his spokesman explains. “We thought we’d better investigate and a survey revealed it was
riddled with damp and had serious structural problems. That in turn meant there were
serious electrical issues. It wasn’t just unhealthy, but unsafe. It had to go.”

The 71-year-old bishop is now in rented accommodation while planning permission
is obtained for a new property, which will include quarters for himself, his offices and
guests. There will also be a private chapel. Local rumours that the Church tried to slip the project past the noses of the authorities are dismissed by the spokesman. “You do not hide
a demolition,” he points out acerbically.

The new property should finally offer warmth and comfort not only to Bishop Devine, but also to his guests. “We had the papal nuncio staying a bit ago and Joe explained to him the place was going to be demolished because of the dampness,” one insider reveals. “I’m sure he started wondering if there was a decent hotel nearby.”

[VoTeckam]

Thank you Pontifex for bringing the thread back to my orignal inquiry.

I will continue to pray about my feelings. I know my Bishop's heart well enough to know his grand house and car are not a result of selfishness or even thoughtlessness. I may give him too much credit in the respect in that such decisions may not have been soley his.

Thank you everyone for your opinions! God Bless.

[StColette]

[quote name='VoTeckam' post='1731622' date='Dec 18 2008, 08:51 PM']I know my Bishop's heart well enough to know his grand house and car are not a result of selfishness or even thoughtlessness.[/quote]

Then you should not be frustrated with him if that's the case. If you know the decisions are not based on selfishness or thoughtlessness, then I don't see where the problem is. And like you pointed out the decision was not entirely his. Bishops don't have supreme power to build or buy anything they want. There are many committees involved in such matters and it usually takes years of planning before the decision to build or remodel is even announced. We recently finished remodeling the Church where I work which was a project that had to be approved by the Bishop, priest, parishioners, counsels, etc. So these decisions are generally not made by one person.

[VoTeckam]

[quote name='StColette' post='1731903' date='Dec 19 2008, 10:53 AM']Then you should not be frustrated with him if that's the case. If you know the decisions are not based on selfishness or thoughtlessness, then I don't see where the problem is.[/quote]

My last post was just an update on where I stood. I was hoping this thread would help my feelings evolve.... and it has.

[StColette]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1731524' date='Dec 18 2008, 05:53 PM']I have made the point that we should give up some of the more ornate things like the Pope's gold crown only to have it pointed out to me that they have tried in the past, and every time that they try to divest of the crown, someone buys it, and donates it right back.[/quote]

Exactly! Many of the paintings, statues, etc. in the Vatican have been donated throughout the ages by families. They've tried selling them and they end up being given right back. Also I don't think we could even put a price on most of the stuff that's in the Vatican. And a lot of those objects are blessed and you can't sell blessed objects.

[Brother Adam]

Our priest drives a tin can with 200,000 miles on it. Someone tried to give him a new car but he said no. It's reliable enough and as long as you keep a good car maintained it won't give you problems. There is no reason anyone needs to drive a brand new car. It does not make good financial sense and is just throwing money out the window. If you want a reliable car while being a good steward, get a 2-3 year old car that has been well taken care of.

I have no problems with clergy or bishops living in big houses because of all the visitors they get. There is nothing wrong with material wealth as long as it is used properly and for the glory of God.

[StColette]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1731919' date='Dec 19 2008, 10:33 AM']There is nothing wrong with material wealth as long as it is used properly and for the glory of God.[/quote]

[picchick]

I think that it is perfectly fine to vent frustrations. We have so many times vented frustrations on phatmass no? Why should this be different? Because it has to do with a bishop?

Sure, I think you should write a letter to your bishop. Maybe not accusing him but questioning his actions in humilty and curiosity. I find nothing wrong with this.

Isn't it better to vent the anger and frustration here before the letter? I mean then the letter won't be as angry and frustrating sounding.

Plus, after venting it is easier to move on with our lives and move towards peace...

Edited December 19, 2008 by picchick

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='StColette' post='1731482' date='Dec 18 2008, 06:28 PM']I'm pretty sure the Holy Father, when he was a Cardinal drove around in a VW which are pretty expensive cars. I'm not going to dare point a finger at him as being extravagant.[/quote]

The Volkswagon? I've never considered them expensive... they do carry a certain hippie quality.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Mercedes and VW are more or less domestic vehicles to Europeans. You'll see BMW and Mercedes buses over there... they aren't quite the luxury label there that we consider them to be.